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Featured Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Whenever I say that Messengers of God are the evidence of God’s existence atheists say “that’s not evidence.”

    So if “that’s not evidence” what would be evidence of God’s existence?

    If God existed, where would we get the evidence? How would we get it?

    As I see it there are only three possibilities:

    1. God exists and there is evidence so we should look for the evidence.
    2. God exists but there is no evidence so there is nothing to look for.
    3. God does not exist and that is why there is no evidence.

    I believe (1) God exists and there is evidence, because if there was no evidence God could not hold humans accountable for believing in Him. Why would God expect us to believe He exists and provide no evidence? That would be unfair as well as unreasonable.
     
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  2. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    When 'god' can mean nearly everything so the meaningfulness of the term is very much under question (see: ignostics) the best thing you can ask for is evidence that a god is interacting in some way with the natural universe and then showing evidence that the phenomenon we're looking at isn't natural. So far I've yet to see evidence of these so-called miraculous events. So to me if there is a god, it's not interfering in the world in a meaningful way.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Why put it on the atheist?

    A god would be capable of producing falsifiable evidence that could convince everyone. If he can't do that simple thing then why consider them to be a god.
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    So you think that miracles would be the only evidence for God's existence, or should I say the only way that God could prove that He exists would be by doing a miracle, something supernatural?

    I believe that God intervenes in the world by sending Messengers who are human and divine. I believe that they can do miracles but they do not want miracles to be the proof that they are Messengers. Even if a Messenger did miracles that would only be proof to the person or people who witnessed the miracle, so it can never be proof for everyone.
     
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  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I think @ADigitalArtist makes a good point. What would qualify as convincing evidence depends on the god.

    I also think @ChristineM makes a good point: why put this on the atheist? If we're assuming an omnipotent, omniscient God, then - by definition - this God would:

    - know what it would take to convince every person of his existence, and
    - be capable of doing it.

    ... so we can infer that either:

    - no omnipotent, omniscient gods exist, or
    - whichever omni-gods exist aren't interested in getting us to believe in them.

    All that aside, I generally use the Moon as my analogy here: if this God is as relevant to our lives and what we observe as the Moon, then we should have at least as good quality and quantity of evidence for God as we do for the Moon.

    Evidence for God should be readily available at all times or near to it, and multiple of avenues of evidence should be available, all agreeing with each other.
     
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  6. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Start giving a definition of God, then it is possible to give the asked "evidence needed to believe in it"
     
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  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Because the atheists are the ones who say "that's not evidence." (see the OP)
    God certainly would be capable of doing that and it even says that God could make everyone a believer in the Baha'i scriptures. It also says why God does not present evidence that will convince everyone.

    Why should God do everything that He can do? Why would God do what God does not want to do just because atheists want Him to do it? No atheist has ever been able to answer those questions.
     
    #7 Trailblazer, Oct 1, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  8. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Good reason for those who didn't witness it to not be convinced then. Sounds like a god, if it wants to be viewed as existing and impactful, should make such evidence accessible to everyone. Otherwise they shouldn't be surprised it's not convincing anyone who doesn't see any reason to consider those messengers divine.

    It's all well and good for someone to accept something on faith alone. But it's not reasonable to expect others to be convinced by faith alone.
     
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  9. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    How can Atheists want God to do anything since atheists do not believe in God in the first place?
    It is kind of up to the believers in God to give a good enough answer for why God exists, that the atheists may investigate further, but if the atheists do not have the slightest belief in God, why would they spend time looking for it?
     
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  10. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Then why ask the question in the OP? It seems you want what you believe your god doesn't want.

    Have you ever thought that there are no questions to answer?
     
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  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Matthew 7:7-8
    King James Version
    7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

    If every time I prayed and was given what I asked for, that would be good enough for me.
     
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  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am assuming an omnipotent, omniscient God who would know what it would take to convince every person of his existence be capable of doing it.

    We cannot infer from omnipotence and omniscience that God would do what it would take to convince everyone of his existence. Why should God do that? God does not need our belief.
    The evidence is readily available at all times but since humans have mucked up the evidence tat was provided in the past, some of the evidence does not agree with other evidence.
     
  13. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I don't think you can ask for a new car :D ask for wisdom, that may something God would grant you :)
     
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  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, I want what I believe God wants.
     
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  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    God does not want yet you want. Ok, got it
     
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  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I don't believe those verses are seeking to convey that we will get everything we want if we pray.
    I think they mean that everyone who really seeks will find God.
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, I meant that I want the same things that I believe God wants.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not see it that way at all. It is not up to the believers in God to provide evidence for atheists. We can tell atheists 'what we believe' the evidence is but if they do not accept that as evidence our job is done. As Jesus said, shake the dust off your feet.

    If atheists do not have the slightest interest in believing in God they won't search for God and in that case they will never find God. It requires willingness and effort. It is really that simple.

    Matthew 7:7-8
    King James Version
    7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
    8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


    “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267
     
  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It may surprise you that atheists don't believe in a god and therefore it does not make sense for an atheist to want your god belief to say anything.

    However you are saying your god doesn't want to give evidence of existence (how you know this is anyone's guess)
    But you are asking atheist to provide the the evidence that your god belief doesnt want to give. It seems you have more faith in an atheists powers than you have for your gods powers. I am truly honoured... Thank you
     
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  20. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    I suspect the new car would be the easier request to grant. :D
     
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