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Atheists say: "we do not know how from nothing came something. But it was not miracle." Do they lie?

questfortruth

questfortruth

Well-Known Member
F1fan said:
The dilemma for some theists is that even if their God was the cause, the God is still something, and where did IT come from? If a God can be eternal, why can't energy? The "god did it" notion is fairly useless as it answers nothing, and just adds another unnecessary element that has no facts behind it.
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God did it through miracle. A miracle does not require explanation or mechanism, because explanation is not in the definition of miracle.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
questfortruth said:
I am not angry at my brothers and sisters, and my homosexuals, and my transexuals, etc. I am angry at satan.
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So Satan make you suffer.
But an other question that are arising is.
You often blame atheists in your OP and thread answer. Atheists are not Satan....they are humans who do not believe God is real. That is all what an atheist is disbeliever in existence of God. And by that they naturally will disagree with religious teach about God, and they disagree with believers in God.

A believer only get harmed by atheist if the believer let the words of Atheists get to them personally (like i did before, but not anymore)
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
questfortruth said:
Is this contradiction a lie? They know nothing about nothing, but they know that it was not miracle. God did it through miracle. A miracle does not require explanation or mechanism, because explanation is not in the definition of miracle.

It was not a problem for ancient people and Sir Newton and Charles Darwin to have God of the Gaps. Gaps are there even today, and they got larger. Much larger.

What about such unknown gaps: Dark Energy, Dark Matter? They fill 94% of reality. It is a huge gap - 94%.
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Those darned atheists, eh! What a confusing bunch of losers! If only they understood the most basic of things.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I think the OP needs to learn something about generosity, and let all the atheists and agnostics wallow in their unknowing, given so many of us do much the same for all those with religious beliefs, and we hardly require them to state they are simply idiots or entirely mistaken, even if they can't all be right - even perhaps the OP. :oops:
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
questfortruth said:
No, I deeply care for them. My insults are not insults, but explanation of my position.
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But calling someone evil because they see or believe different than you?

As a Christian aren't you supposed to be nice to everyone instead of insulting them?

Btw my question to you is not an attempt on insulting your position.
Just an attemt to understand your way of thinking :)
 
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The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Subduction Zone said:
The answer is clear:

We don't know yet.
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As I understand, if it came from anything else, that something would be a part of everything and therefore cannot be where 'something' came from. It's turtles all the way down, but essentially the last turtle must stand on nothing.

F1fan said:
The dilemma for some theists is that even if their God was the cause, the God is still something, and where did IT come from? If a God can be eternal, why can't energy? The "god did it" notion is fairly useless as it answers nothing, and just adds another unnecessary element that has no facts behind it.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, whether existence had an origin or was always there is another matter of discussion, the reason it exists is what I'm discussing. I would say the principle that is the reason behind existence existing in the first place cannot be a part of existence itself, that would be redundant. It could be 'nothing', we don't understand the nature of nothing enough to know if it could cause existence or not. Another proposition is something that both exists and doesn't exist at the same time; like energy, or mathematical/physical laws.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
The dilemma for some theists is that even if their God was the cause, the God is still something, and where did IT come from? If a God can be eternal, why can't energy? The "god did it" notion is fairly useless as it answers nothing, and just adds another unnecessary element that has no facts behind it.
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It gives the mystery a name, just as calling it a "singularity" does. And I agree that neither of those labels tells us a thing about the mystery they are labeling.
 
A

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
F1fan said:
This is a common misconception by those poorly educated and overly religious. The Big Bang wasn't a creation event, it was an expansion of existing material, called a singularity. Why this super dense mass suddenly began to expand is not yet known. It is likely the mass was unstable and the result was the spontaneous expansion, much like how oily rags in a cantainer can spontaneously combust due to the instability of the material.

Some believers will claim it was God that started the expansion, but no Gods are known to exist, so irrelevant. We can only explain how the universe works with the facts we have, and Gods, or any supernatural, is not part of the facts we can use.

There is a scientific explanation about how something can come from nothing, and that is well expalined by Lawrence Kraus.

A Universe from Nothing - Wikipedia
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The reviews on that book are hardly inspiring. The Afterword is laughable as well. If this is what you are basing your ideas on, I think you might want to rethink that.

Would this be the same Dr Kraus who was forced out of his university job into retirement after several women accused him of sexual misconduct over a period of 10 years? Hardly someone I would be placing my world view into the hands of.

The reality is, it is proven everything came from a singularity...what is not proven scientifically is where the heck the singularity came from.
It is pointless to pretend it was outside of time from a humanism world view...because that simply results in a new question...where did time come from.

Ultimately there is no option but to admit everything came from a miracle...and Christians genuinely do have the only rational answer to that final question...where did the miracle come from. Answer - God.
 
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Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
AdamjEdgar said:
The reviews on that book are hardly inspiring. The Afterword is laughable as well. If this is what you are basing your ideas on, I think you might want to rethink that.
The reality is, it is proven everything came from a singularity...what is not proven scientifically is where the heck the singularity came from.
It is pointless to pretend it was outside of time from a humanism world view...because that simply results in a new question...where did time come from.

Ultimately there is no option but to admit everything came from a miracle...and Christians genuinely do have the only rational answer to that final question...where did the miracle come from. Answer - God.
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I wonder what a true miracle actually is?

Probably people will have a very different understanding of what miracle actually is.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
AdamjEdgar said:
The reviews on that book are hardly inspiring. The Afterword is laughable as well. If this is what you are basing your ideas on, I think you might want to rethink that.

Would this be the same Dr Kraus who was forced out of his university job into retirement after several women accused him of sexual misconduct over a period of 10 years? Hardly someone I would be placing my world view into the hands of.
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Feel free to provide links that show your sources are valid, and not religious sabotage. One thging we have learned from theists in these debates is we can't trust them to be objective.

The reality is, it is proven everything came from a singularity...what is not proven scientifically is where the heck the singularity came from.
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Why assume it came from anywhere? Who told you the singularity came from somewhere?

It is pointless to pretend it was outside of time from a humanism world view...because that simply results in a new question...where did time come from.
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Time is part of the material universe. This is basic middle school science.

Ultimately there is no option but to admit everything came from a miracle...and Christians genuinely do have the only rational answer to that final question...where did the miracle come from. Answer - God.
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How can a rational mind admit something that has no evidence?

Feel free to provide evidence of this miracle that we "have no option but to admit". This is the difference between flawed religious thinking, you make assumptions that are not only baseless, it is contrary to what we understand of reality. Reason and knowledge can ONLY follow facts, and your religious folks lack this completely. If only you had as much evidence as you do arrogance you could put together a valid argument.
 
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