Atheists: If Aliens worshipped Jesus

[F1fan]

How did they end up being fans of Jesus?

Probably how they saw how easily Christians used the Bible to justify enslaving others, and they use Jesus as a moral excuse to enslave earthlings.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think there have probably been threads about this previously but another won't hurt....

If we met an alien civilisation and it turned out they were big fans of Jesus would you consider the chance that God exists to be more likely, less likely, or the same. Why?

Forget aliens.

I frequently said this before: other contemporary civilizations would already do.

Imagine Columbus arriving in the america's only to find out that they all have exact copies of the bible.

But sure, aliens would do as well.
It's not going to happen off course.

If mayans, inca's, aboriginals, etc already never heard of anything abrahamic, then extra-terrestials certainly won't either.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Just adding more beings who believe in an idea that rational humans can't judge true is a form of the fallacy of argument via popularity. It doesn't matter how many believe X. What matters is: did the mob make their judgment via facts and reason, or through some other process, like emotion, cultural influence, stress reduction, etc.

To play devil's advocate for a second... this is not just about "amount of people that believe".

This rather is about multiple groups of beings, independently coming to the same conclusions.

If the hypothesis is that abrahamic religion is a cultural invention of middle eastern civilization, then it follows that these myths and legends shouldn't be known in cultures that never had any contact with them.

So finding an alien civilization that literally has an exact copy of the bible, would be evidence that would not support this hypothesis.

I am off course assuming that we can be certain somehow that they gained their bible independently from that middle eastern culture.

So such a discovery would demand an explanation. And the running hypothesis would be insufficient.

 

[F1fan]

To play devil's advocate for a second... this is not just about "amount of people that believe".

This rather is about multiple groups of beings, independently coming to the same conclusions.

If the hypothesis is that abrahamic religion is a cultural invention of middle eastern civilization, then it follows that these myths and legends shouldn't be known in cultures that never had any contact with them.

So finding an alien civilization that literally has an exact copy of the bible, would be evidence that would not support this hypothesis.

I am off course assuming that we can be certain somehow that they gained their bible independently from that middle eastern culture.

So such a discovery would demand an explanation. And the running hypothesis would be insufficient.

Oh, so the aliens had their own revelation. Well that would be impressive, but only if they can show they actually did have it independently from earth.

As you noted remote civilizations have oddly never heard of Jesus until Westerners showed up and killed them for being heretics.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As you noted remote civilizations have oddly never heard of Jesus until Westerners showed up and killed them for being heretics.

Thanks a lot dude. You made me spit my coffee all over my keyboard!

Hahaha.


Come to think of it.... it would be rather odd finding an alien civilization of octopy-humanoids or whatever, who read a book with stories concerning a carpenter who was nailed to a cross in some middle eastern village on some insignificant blue dot in an insignificant corner of an insignificant galaxy.


If I were a god, I would do a much better job in spreading my message though.
I'ld create a book made from indestructible materials, of which the text divinely (not "magically"!!!! ) appears in whatever language the reader speaks and I'ld send a copy to all corners of the world. I'ld also use unambiguous language so that there would never be any doubt as to what I meant exactly.

There would be no need to kill heretics in first encounters with other people, because everyone would understand reality in the same way. And I wouldn't have my son tortured as a human sacrifice to myself either.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I would definitely be more inclined to think the myth has some truth behind it.

Really? My first suspicion would be that they had received some radio signals from Earthly televangelists, and thinking that they were "messages from beyond," that much more likely to credit them.

 

[blü 2]

I think there have probably been threads about this previously but another won't hurt....

If we met an alien civilisation and it turned out they were big fans of Jesus would you consider the chance that God exists to be more likely, less likely, or the same. Why?

The proposition is remarkable imprecise.

An alien civilization would arise on a non-earth, and its biology would be adapted to a seriously different set of physical circumstances. Even were it substantially the same as Earth, our aliens would be the result of a different evolutionary path, which may or may not have produced tetrapods, placentals, mammals, bipeds, lung-powered lip-tongue-articulated language. We'll have to imagine they use words / concepts to communicate, that they identify individuals amongst them and do so by distinct names, and that their concepts coincide with our notions of religion, morality and purpose.

We'll also have to suppose that their organs of articulation allow them to speak like us earthlings; and that either their Jesus, whose actual Earth name is Yeshua, has inexplicably been given an Earth name, or that against odds too remote to fit on the page, they speak Aramaic there.

Okay, so the Enterprise boys and girls beam down to planet X, find this civilization, note that their largest but declining religion has a central character called Yeshua, and presumably that he ─ we also have to assume that they have two sexes and that the two function like humans socially and reproductively ─ died at some point in history for their sins (since earthly Jesus did not leave a morality particularly distinct from the ordinary instincts of humans) and promised that his followers would have a desirable postmortal existence.

What should we make of that?

Well, which of the possibilities is least unlikely?

─ that there has been prior communications between Earth and this planet in the course of which the Jesus tale was conveyed. (It may be that their Jesus seeded ours rather than vice versa, of course.)

─ that against overwhelming odds it's all a weird coincidence

─ that a superbeing has gone to enormous trouble to produce a breathtakingly inefficient religious effect both on Earth and on this planet.

Choose one, or add your own.

I'd think the first was by far the most likely.

But frankly, it's not a problem I foresee.

 

[Heyo]

octopy

It's octopuses (most commonly used today and favoured in dictionaries) or octopods (original Greek and favoured by me) but never octopy or octopi (which would be a Latin plural of a Greek word).
Pet peeves ...

 

[firedragon]

I think there have probably been threads about this previously but another won't hurt....

If we met an alien civilisation and it turned out they were big fans of Jesus would you consider the chance that God exists to be more likely, less likely, or the same. Why?

This is the same "hypothetical question" atheists ask.

So hypothetically, if I am an atheist, I would ask those aliens "why".

 

[Polymath257]

Really? My first suspicion would be that they had received some radio signals from Earthly televangelists, and thinking that they were "messages from beyond," that much more likely to credit them.

I was assuming no previous contact. A race of aliens even knowing about an itinerant preacher from 2000 years ago would be pretty remarkable. At the very least, that could well be evidence of Jesus' existence. If their stories line up with ours, that could be independent evidence that certain events actually happened.

Would it prove Jesus to be the 'son of God'? No. But it would be a remarkable thing.

 

[ChristineM]

Aliens, just like humans can believe in whatever they want. I personally would need to see their evidence before i made a choice

 

[Heyo]

- Alien Visitors

 

[Suave]

I think there have probably been threads about this previously but another won't hurt....

If we met an alien civilisation and it turned out they were big fans of Jesus would you consider the chance that God exists to be more likely, less likely, or the same. Why?

We are them, we are the aliens!

Our cosmic ancestry, our genetic code's creator, has left this mathematical pattern in our genetic code conveying to me the symbol of an Egyptian triangle as well as the number 37 embedded in our genetic code.

Eight of the canonical amino acids can be sufficiently defined by the composition of their codon's first and second base nucleotides. The nucleon sum of these amino acids' side chains is 333 (=37 * 3 squared), the sun of their block nucleons (basic core structure) is 592 (=37 * 4 squared), and the sum of their total nucleons is 925 (=37 * 5 squared ). With 37 factored out, this results in 3 squared + 4 squared + 5 squared, which is representative of an Egyptian triangle. Based on this signal of intelligence left in our genetic code, I suspect our genetic coding was invented by our cosmic ancestor.

 

[Yerda]

(It may be that their Jesus seeded ours rather than vice versa, of course.)

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered.

Let's assume that their ideas about Jesus arose independently. Does that update your belief about God?

 

[Suave]

How did they end up being fans of Jesus?

Was it that they picked up our TV signals and the televangelists really resonated with them, or did they already think before they encountered humanity that Jesus had visited them?

They being us, that's how!

 

[blü 2]

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered.

Let's assume that their ideas about Jesus arose independently. Does that update your belief about God?

so we delete the only really possible explanation and have to choose between jawdropping coincidence and supernaturality?

Well, at least we know jawdropping coincidence is possible, however faintly.

 

[Yerda]

so we delete the only really possible explanation and have to choose between jawdropping coincidence and supernaturality?

Well, at least we know jawdropping coincidence is possible, however faintly.

I've seen a lot of theists claim nothing could change an atheist's mind and this question gets to one of the relevant issues on the matter. At least it does for me. Do we willingly and dispassionately engage with the evidence?

 

[Heyo]

I've seen a lot of theists claim nothing could change an atheist's mind and this question gets to one of the relevant issues on the matter. At least it does for me. Do we willingly and dispassionately engage with the evidence?

I'm with those theists. I'd formulate it a bit different, though: No argument could change an atheist's mind. We have heard them all and found all of them lacking. And I've yet to meet an atheist* who converted to theism through reason.
(* An atheist who isn't just an ignorant atheist, like a child, but has considered the evidence and the arguments.)
I may be swayed by new evidence or even a new argument, but there hasn't been any for centuries. So the theists are really complaining about reality and their inability to come up with something new.

 

[blü 2]

I've seen a lot of theists claim nothing could change an atheist's mind and this question gets to one of the relevant issues on the matter. At least it does for me. Do we willingly and dispassionately engage with the evidence?

Well, in this case the proposition is notably unspecific and requires the onlooker to choose what to imagine in order to create the scenario. If there really were such aliens, and they had gods, I doubt we'd be able to identify the alien Jesus in their pantheon. He'd have been born an alien and have lived and died in an alien civilization, which might be an ant in an ants' nest or something more exotic. But I guess it's not impossible, just hugely unlikely.

 

[Yerda]

I'm with those theists. I'd formulate it a bit different, though: No argument could change an atheist's mind. We have heard them all and found all of them lacking. And I've yet to meet an atheist* who converted to theism through reason.
(* An atheist who isn't just an ignorant atheist, like a child, but has considered the evidence and the arguments.)
I may be swayed by new evidence or even a new argument, but there hasn't been any for centuries. So the theists are really complaining about reality and their inability to come up with something new.

So would finding an alien civilisation that believed the Jesus myth be evidence of God?

Well, in this case the proposition is notably unspecific and requires the onlooker to choose what to imagine in order to create the scenario. If there really were such aliens, and they had gods, I doubt we'd be able to identify the alien Jesus in their pantheon. He'd have been born an alien and have lived and died in an alien civilization, which might be an ant in an ants' nest or something more exotic. But I guess it's not impossible, just hugely unlikely.

Yip, it's supposed to be an unlikely scenario.

A more believable one might be discovering a new tribe who've never had contact with the rest of humanity. We meet them and learn their language and it turns out they've got an oral history that's exactly like some revealed religious tradition that we know of already.

The point is whether this unlikely outcome increases our estimation of the likelihood that God exists. My gut instinct is that I'm more likely to believe God is real but maybe not enough that I become a theist. I find the thought experiment interesting in any case.