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Atheist; wish I could believe

pacifica

Member
Hello! First post here. I am a woman, early twenties, atheist. It's been some time now, a couple of years maybe, that I've found myself in a weird situation that looks like it's shared by a number of people.

I was raised culturally Catholic by a vaguely observant mother and a non-observant, completely disinterested
father. I remember being bored and skeptic during religion class in elementary school already (also cracking
blasphemous jokes about The Jesus, which landed me in trouble in various occasions) and when I was about 11 I just declared I didn't believe in any of that stuff and that I was an atheist. My parents basically shrugged. I spent the following few years being the obnoxious atheist kid trying to 'convert' people to the brave new godless world I had discovered for myself. When I got to about 17 I had gotten all of the militant attitude out of my system and I just kept quiet about my lack of belief. It also became dramatically easier when everybody around me declared their atheism too. I'm not lying when I say that about eighty percent of people in my social circles are atheists or pretty hard agnostics (although ours is a historically deeply Catholic European country).

I've always been deeply interested about religion. At first in a combative, know-your-enemy way when I was twelve or thirteen, and later on from philosophical, historical, anthropological standpoints. It's been a couple of years now that I've found myself living the reluctant atheist paradox.

I believe that atheism has been wildly over-rated, as far as human happiness goes. I would gladly swap my sadly unwavering belief in science and rationality and Russell's teapot for the warm comfort of believing in some kind of higher power permeating all matter visible and invisible. I wish there was a Creator, and that I could believe in it, and pay tribute to it; but what I feel is also not about a personal God per se, if that makes any sense. I could be content, I think, even believing in a Spinozian God, the pantheist type. I feel actual longing for the ritualistic aspect of religion, the act of elevating every day to the divine through rites, and coming together with other people, sharing a community, a deeply felt idea, instead of just counting 'paper-thin' days down till the end, as a lone atom without any bonds to a higher, older, holier kind of community that predates my birth and will exist after me. I guess it's not even about the afterlife. I'm not afraid of death, the nothingness (although I do feel a bitter pang when I consider the annihilation without chance of return or reunion of everyone I love). I guess I just dearly wish there was more to this physical realm: sense, truth, some kind of reason for it all, or purpose, something under, between, the matter, a coherent principle; that I could believe in the existance of this principle, and that I could truthfully and joyfully pay my tributes to it.

There is also another level to my longing, in the sense that religion is just so damn fascinating and bizarre and beautiful. I can't help but be fascinated by the religious (and observant) mindset and envious, in some ways, of the richness, depths and beauty of its best manifestations (although that doesn't stop me from being annoyed and horrified by the horrors and backwardness inflicted on the rest of humankind by the fundamentalists).

The funny thing is that I think the turning point for me was watching a pretty popular movie, The Believer, the one with Ryan Gosling as a Nazi self-hating Jew. There's that part towards the end where Gosling's girlfriend, who is like the daughter of bonafide fascists, and who is sliding into Judaism for no logical reason other than an unexplicable urge, says something like 'What if surrendering to God is the best feeling we could ever have'. What if it is?

Every time I pass in front of the local synagogue [to be clear: there is no link between the movie's subject and my interest in Judaism] I get this nonsensical desire to just go inside and try with all my might to believe, to feel it, to lose myself into it. Or just go to a service and bask in the atmosphere. And then I remember I am an atheist, and feel like a weirdo and a fraud.

I am aware this is completely bizarre but some long Google searches have told me it's not really unheard of, so... I guess the questions are:

- am I, and the people who think like me, total loonies?
- does this make any sense to any of you? I guess this one is a question especially for the atheists who may be reading
- any thoughts from the theist side of the barricade?
- is this all a cry from a lost soul in the liquid world described by Zygmunt Bauman?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Personally, I don't think theism was ever supposed to be a big deal, let alone something to be expected in religious practice.

The understanding that it should be both seems to be fairly recent and also very much a distortion.
 

Thana

Lady
I am aware this is completely bizarre but some long Google searches have told me it's not really unheard of, so... I guess the questions are:

- am I, and the people who think like me, total loonies?
- does this make any sense to any of you? I guess this one is a question especially for the atheists who may be reading
- any thoughts from the theist side of the barricade?
- is this all a cry from a lost soul in the liquid world described by Zygmunt Bauman?

I think, Atheism and Theism aside, It seems completely human to me. We're social creatures.

And I think you've grown as a person but I also think you haven't grown as much as you think you have. Just from what you've written I got a massive condescending vibe, essentially it felt like you were saying that you wish you were an idiot like all those Theists but you're just to damn smart.

If I could recommend anything, to help you spiritually or just generally, it would be to work on your humility.
It might be able to help you see a little bit better.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
A creator of some type might exist. But, one might not. The beauty of atheism, and it took me a bit to really feel this way, is that you no longer need to worry if there is a creator or not. While I don't believe any evidence exists to support the existence of a deity, I tend to be open minded and lean towards agnosticism in that regard. You don't have to be a hard line atheist. You can be a non-believer and yet still keep an open mind to all that may be. I find that type of living to be much more enriching than taking a hard line as a believer or non-believer. I also gravitate to certain thoughts and practices within Buddhism, but wouldn't label myself as a Buddhist. Think as a society, we get way too caught up in labeling ourselves and others. Just be what it is you wish to be. There are no rules. :)

Welcome to the site! :sunflower:
 

pacifica

Member
And I think you've grown as a person but I also think you haven't grown as much as you think you have. Just from what you've written I got a massive condescending vibe, essentially it felt like you were saying that you wish you were an idiot like all those Theists but you're just to damn smart.

Nah! The whole post is a basically an unabashed praise of religion and me scratching my head like a chimp in front of it. I'm sorry if you got an impression of condescencion (maybe from the second paragraph? I was just trying to convey my previous admittedly obnoxious mindset), I truly didn't mean to send those vibes:)

I'm also reading and thanking you for all of your replies.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Mmm, when I went to church, it just exposed to how terrible and creepy congregations of people are, and dark and guideless the human condition really is.

But the food was usually a plus.
 

pacifica

Member
Mmm, when I went to church, it just exposed to how terrible and creepy congregations of people are, and dark and guideless the human condition really is.

Hah, I can definitely see your point. Guess I'm trying to unconsciously counteract my own crippling misanthropy?

Bonus points for Debord quotation in the signature :D
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
There is also another level to my longing, in the sense that religion is just so damn fascinating and bizarre and beautiful. I can't help but be fascinated by the religious (and observant) mindset and envious, in some ways, of the richness, depths and beauty of its best manifestations (although that doesn't stop me from being annoyed and horrified by the horrors and backwardness inflicted on the rest of humankind by the fundamentalists).

The funny thing is that I think the turning point for me was watching a pretty popular movie, The Believer, the one with Ryan Gosling as a Nazi self-hating Jew. There's that part towards the end where Gosling's girlfriend, who is like the daughter of bonafide fascists, and who is sliding into Judaism for no logical reason other than an unexplicable urge, says something like 'What if surrendering to God is the best feeling we could ever have'. What if it is?

Every time I pass in front of the local synagogue [to be clear: there is no link between the movie's subject and my interest in Judaism] I get this nonsensical desire to just go inside and try with all my might to believe, to feel it, to lose myself into it. Or just go to a service and bask in the atmosphere. And then I remember I am an atheist, and feel like a weirdo and a fraud.

I am aware this is completely bizarre but some long Google searches have told me it's not really unheard of, so... I guess the questions are:

- am I, and the people who think like me, total loonies?
- does this make any sense to any of you? I guess this one is a question especially for the atheists who may be reading
- any thoughts from the theist side of the barricade?
- is this all a cry from a lost soul in the liquid world described by Zygmunt Bauman?
Atheism is not always orthogonal to belief or to religion. It means you don't believe in a supreme being, and that is all that it means. It doesn't mean that you cannot experience religion or even that you cannot pray. An atheist can even pray to God without believing. There's nothing in the rulebook that says you can't pray an unbelieving prayer. You can also go back and forth between belief and unbelief, and that is normal though most people consider you a believer if you do that. It just means you don't believe certain things, particularly that there is some supreme being doing things, watching you and so forth. You are well within the soup and not on the edges. You could be an atheist and believe that the walls are watching you or that you can talk to the moon or that you have a spirit or an atman. There are all kinds of people who call themselves atheists.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Hah, I can definitely see your point. Guess I'm trying to unconsciously counteract my own crippling misanthropy?

Think of it this way, the true depravity and stupidity of human existence is so unreasonable unbound, and we remain ignorant of the overwhelming majority of it on a day to a day basis. So really, in a way, you have an ignorance that is far more blissful than the meek basis of an explanation for anything as that of a deity. People who who believe in deities aren't going to anymore happy or not happy than anyone else, because happiness is not something we have immediate control over anyways, and happiness and sad are going to go and come at a reasonable pace back and fourth, if your lucky, so given those conditions, things could be worse.

Bonus points for Debord quotation in the signature :D

Thanks, but I can't accept those bonus points as they are a mode of human approval facilitated only by the self-affirming, relationship-distorting means of communication filtered by the collective capital will via the consumer products we use to do it, or the spectacle.

Just kidding, welcome to RF.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Nah! The whole post is a basically an unabashed praise of religion and me scratching my head like a chimp in front of it. I'm sorry if you got an impression of condescencion (maybe from the second paragraph? I was just trying to convey my previous admittedly obnoxious mindset), I truly didn't mean to send those vibes:)

I'm also reading and thanking you for all of your replies.
First, greetings!
Second, if anyone here is to be arrogant & condescending towards my faithful friends, that is my job. Usurp at your peril!
Third, have some....
th
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Hello! First post here. I am a woman, early twenties, atheist. It's been some time now, a couple of years maybe, that I've found myself in a weird situation that looks like it's shared by a number of people.

I was raised culturally Catholic by a vaguely observant mother and a non-observant, completely disinterested
father. I remember being bored and skeptic during religion class in elementary school already (also cracking
blasphemous jokes about The Jesus, which landed me in trouble in various occasions) and when I was about 11 I just declared I didn't believe in any of that stuff and that I was an atheist. My parents basically shrugged. I spent the following few years being the obnoxious atheist kid trying to 'convert' people to the brave new godless world I had discovered for myself. When I got to about 17 I had gotten all of the militant attitude out of my system and I just kept quiet about my lack of belief. It also became dramatically easier when everybody around me declared their atheism too. I'm not lying when I say that about eighty percent of people in my social circles are atheists or pretty hard agnostics (although ours is a historically deeply Catholic European country).

I've always been deeply interested about religion. At first in a combative, know-your-enemy way when I was twelve or thirteen, and later on from philosophical, historical, anthropological standpoints. It's been a couple of years now that I've found myself living the reluctant atheist paradox.

I believe that atheism has been wildly over-rated, as far as human happiness goes. I would gladly swap my sadly unwavering belief in science and rationality and Russell's teapot for the warm comfort of believing in some kind of higher power permeating all matter visible and invisible. I wish there was a Creator, and that I could believe in it, and pay tribute to it; but what I feel is also not about a personal God per se, if that makes any sense. I could be content, I think, even believing in a Spinozian God, the pantheist type. I feel actual longing for the ritualistic aspect of religion, the act of elevating every day to the divine through rites, and coming together with other people, sharing a community, a deeply felt idea, instead of just counting 'paper-thin' days down till the end, as a lone atom without any bonds to a higher, older, holier kind of community that predates my birth and will exist after me. I guess it's not even about the afterlife. I'm not afraid of death, the nothingness (although I do feel a bitter pang when I consider the annihilation without chance of return or reunion of everyone I love). I guess I just dearly wish there was more to this physical realm: sense, truth, some kind of reason for it all, or purpose, something under, between, the matter, a coherent principle; that I could believe in the existance of this principle, and that I could truthfully and joyfully pay my tributes to it.

There is also another level to my longing, in the sense that religion is just so damn fascinating and bizarre and beautiful. I can't help but be fascinated by the religious (and observant) mindset and envious, in some ways, of the richness, depths and beauty of its best manifestations (although that doesn't stop me from being annoyed and horrified by the horrors and backwardness inflicted on the rest of humankind by the fundamentalists).

The funny thing is that I think the turning point for me was watching a pretty popular movie, The Believer, the one with Ryan Gosling as a Nazi self-hating Jew. There's that part towards the end where Gosling's girlfriend, who is like the daughter of bonafide fascists, and who is sliding into Judaism for no logical reason other than an unexplicable urge, says something like 'What if surrendering to God is the best feeling we could ever have'. What if it is?

Every time I pass in front of the local synagogue [to be clear: there is no link between the movie's subject and my interest in Judaism] I get this nonsensical desire to just go inside and try with all my might to believe, to feel it, to lose myself into it. Or just go to a service and bask in the atmosphere. And then I remember I am an atheist, and feel like a weirdo and a fraud.

I am aware this is completely bizarre but some long Google searches have told me it's not really unheard of, so... I guess the questions are:

- am I, and the people who think like me, total loonies?
- does this make any sense to any of you? I guess this one is a question especially for the atheists who may be reading
- any thoughts from the theist side of the barricade?
- is this all a cry from a lost soul in the liquid world described by Zygmunt Bauman?

Personally....

I'd suggest just reading the bible as if you've never heard anything about it.

It is an excellent thing to not believe in something unless it makes sense.
The bible actually does make sense -and is quite different than most people think.

It contains solutions to all of mankind's problems. Even if you don't believe in God, if you actually read it and understood it you'd have to at least acknowledge that.

Many surrender to something, and many consider that to be God -but it's not really wise to surrender to something you do not understand, or which you truly don't believe makes sense.

Also.... God is not as concerned with your belief in his existence as he is with whether or not you do good.

Christ said that if you wish to enter into life, you should keep the commandments -so perhaps consider them.
Even if you do not believe in an after life, consider what sort of word it would be if everyone kept the commandments.
That which produces paradise and keeps one from all sorts of sorrows and problems can't be wrong.
Religion has not caused a paradise, but religion does not always equate to obedience to God -especially as it takes time to become obedient, even for the willing.

Surrendering to God is evident by obedience to him -but why not start with surrendering to doing what you prove is good and right?

It is easier to understand the need for the latter commandments -but the first few are very important when considering eternity. Without a solid foundation and government, eternity would be just as chaotic as the world has been.

As for the rest of the bible..... It can be very confusing -but it helps to look at it as a long-term process.... The unfortunate parts of which can and will be made a non-issue in the future.

I would also suggest asking God to guide you. There is much confusion and deception about..... So be careful ....definitely question everything and "prove all things" -and know that the more you understand the truth, the less likely you are to be fooled.



If you consider man's history, nature and present state, you'll realize that unless the things written happen, mankind will always have the same problems -if they do not destroy themselves or become extinct.
 
Last edited:

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Welcome to RF. :)

I remember being bored and skeptic during religion class in elementary school already (also cracking
blasphemous jokes about The Jesus, which landed me in trouble in various occasions)

Good man. :D

I believe that atheism has been wildly over-rated, as far as human happiness goes. I would gladly swap my sadly unwavering belief in science and rationality and Russell's teapot for the warm comfort of believing in some kind of higher power permeating all matter visible and invisible. I wish there was a Creator, and that I could believe in it, and pay tribute to it; but what I feel is also not about a personal God per se, if that makes any sense. I could be content, I think, even believing in a Spinozian God, the pantheist type. I feel actual longing for the ritualistic aspect of religion, the act of elevating every day to the divine through rites, and coming together with other people, sharing a community, a deeply felt idea, instead of just counting 'paper-thin' days down till the end, as a lone atom without any bonds to a higher, older, holier kind of community that predates my birth and will exist after me. I guess it's not even about the afterlife. I'm not afraid of death, the nothingness (although I do feel a bitter pang when I consider the annihilation without chance of return or reunion of everyone I love). I guess I just dearly wish there was more to this physical realm: sense, truth, some kind of reason for it all, or purpose, something under, between, the matter, a coherent principle; that I could believe in the existance of this principle, and that I could truthfully and joyfully pay my tributes to it.

As an atheist, I often struggle with the problem of evil. Whilst obviously there is no god, that doesn't mean we can't have an emotional response to all the problems in the world. a belief in god feels safer and more reassuring, expecially if their omnibenevolent (rather than a wrath and fear kind of deity). religious belief- with or without a diety- also entails a belief in an ordered universe and so that can make us feel safer too. religion provides a sense of belongning both to a community and a higher power than allows us to feel that we transcend our own and others suffering. I favour belief in humanity as an alternative to belief in god, but its not unconditional. we are a strange species and visit a great amount of cruelty on one another and that can be hard to stomach. but whilst our failings are real, so are the people so I know it matters we get something right.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
You might try looking into Buddhism, Buddhism is a religion with ethics, morality, 5 commandments or precepts quite similar to ones proscribed by Jesus, but the emphasis is on bettering yourself, and learning to show love and compassion for all your fellow beings, animals included. While I think there is definitely room for a God or Theos in Buddhism, most western Buddhists are atheists, and sincerely believe that the Buddha taught Atheism, which I think is a bit of a misunderstanding IMHO but the point is its a well developed, respected and very inspiring religious movement that has no requirement to believe in God or even a higher power. If your problem is wanting religion but not giving up Atheism, I would recommend at least investigating Buddhism.

If on the other hand you really are looking for God, not religion, I encourage you to continue your search, Christianity is as much about what God is not as it is about what God really is, I really don't recommend getting your impression of what God is or should be from organized religion, they got it so screwed up for so long, God is so much more than what people try to pigeonhole her into, God is everything good, and nothing bad, no torture of sinners, no endless rules to obey, just love and compassion, wisdom, and care for us all, at least that's what God is to me.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
...
- am I, and the people who think like me, total loonies?
- does this make any sense to any of you? I guess this one is a question especially for the atheists who may be reading
- any thoughts from the theist side of the barricade?
- is this all a cry from a lost soul in the liquid world described by Zygmunt Bauman?

To me you're totally sane and in a very creative though emotionally challenging place. Searching for meaning and purpose in life is a wonderful search. When I was on my own search I went into various religious places to understand their meaning better - there's nothing weird about it. Nor is it a fraud as long as you're honest with yourself and others that you are searching. There's a fun joke that might apply "Don't believe everything you think". The point of the joke is that you might think certain things on the surface of your mind but deep within yourself things are happening that have not yet come into awareness. That has happened to me. My only advice is not to be too harsh on yourself - to honor those impulses and let them tell you their message.
 
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