Atheist Re-Activism

[Kenny]

I know that in the jargon of "militant", you can find both kinds on both sides of religion and non-religion.

true - true!

 

[Father Heathen]

IMO this is like the race issue. They are only issues because everyone keeps talking about them and keeps them an issue. If people focused more on their own life, their own happiness, their own problems.. everything would be much better.

All the systematic disproportions and disparities will disappear if we just ignore them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I usually find atheists generally attacking theists more than theist attacking atheists.

You brought up a thought that I had a couple of days age. Why is it that theists "proselytize" but atheists don't?

I have often seen theists claim this when atheists are merely telling theists that they are trying to impose their beliefs on others. Religious beliefs are often improperly ingrained in our society. Advocating for secularism is not proselytizing.

 

[Kenny]

Both is because atheists have no message but theists do. And some think that their message is so important that they want to spread it, e.g. on YouTube.

I disagree... the atheist's message is that religion is a myth and that there is no God and they try to convince people of that by trying to have religious people join their ranks.

As the rules says:

"Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching."

And some of those messages are so horrendous or so wrong that people speak out against them. And while it would be the duty of the theists to keep their house clean, it is almost always atheists who jump to that task.

Now, the horrendous part is so true. Even I get red-faced at some of the Christian theists statements at times.

But I don't think atheists do any better job at keeping our house clean than they do at keeping their own house clean. Both need cleaning.

 

[Father Heathen]

I usually find atheists generally attacking theists more than theist attacking atheists.

You brought up a thought that I had a couple of days age. Why is it that theists "proselytize" but atheists don't?

But what are they usually attacking? Science denial, opposition to reproductive rights/bodily autonomy, anti-LGBT bigotry, mixing church and state?

 

[Father Heathen]

I disagree... the atheist's message is that religion is a myth and that there is no God and they try to convince people of that by trying to have religious people join their ranks.

As the rules says:

"Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching."



Now, the horrendous part is so true. Even I get red-faced at some of the Christian theists statements at times.

But I don't think atheists do any better job at keeping our house clean that they do at keeping their own house clean. Both need cleaning.

I'm agnostic (leaning pantheist), and I think that people should have the right to believe and practice what they want. It only becomes a problem for me when they act upon their beliefs in ways that victimize or violate the rights of others.

 

[Kenny]

I have often seen theists claim this when atheists are merely telling theists that they are trying to impose their beliefs on others. Religious beliefs are often improperly ingrained in our society. Advocating for secularism is not proselytizing.

Can I say that advocating for theism is not proselytizing?

 

[PureX]

I have often seen theists claim this when atheists are merely telling theists that they are trying to impose their beliefs on others. Religious beliefs are often improperly ingrained in our society. Advocating for secularism is not proselytizing.

A lot of atheists seem to think that to proclaim a belief they find "improperly ingrained in our society" is to "impose it on others". As if society cannot and should not determine these things for themselves.

Oddly, the very same motive that some evangelicals use to justify trying to force prayer in schools, and public meetings and so on.

 

[Kenny]

But what are they usually attacking? Science denial, opposition to reproductive rights/bodily autonomy, anti-LGBT bigotry, mixing church and state?

I'm not sure who has the "usually" corner

Science denial - God denial
Opposition to bodily autonomy - opposition to babies body autonomy
Anti-bigotry - I think we are anti-bigotry too
Mixing church and state - mixing humanism and state

I think there is enough to go around on both sides

 

[Father Heathen]

Science denial - God denial

If science is "anti-god" then why do you use medicine and technology?

Opposition to bodily autonomy - opposition to babies body autonomy

Would you call a bowl of batter a cake?

Anti-bigotry - I think we are anti-bigotry too

Not when so many Christians do what they can to deny rights and freedom for those who are LGBT.

Mixing church and state - mixing humanism and state.

How do you define "humanism" and how do you see it incorporated into government?
Governments should be secular - which means religiously neutral, NOT anti-religion - as this is necessary for a free and fair society. Otherwise you end up with theocracy, which is a form of tyranny.

I think there is enough to go around on both sides

Sure, if you want to count false equivalencies.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not sure who has the "usually" corner

Science denial - God denial
Opposition to bodily autonomy - opposition to babies body autonomy
Anti-bigotry - I think we are anti-bigotry too
Mixing church and state - mixing humanism and state

I think there is enough to go around on both sides

Well, I try to compromise on all of them, but bigotry is the hardest one in a sense.

 

[Stevicus]

This is, of course, a reaction to the thread Typical atheists vs. Online atheists

Thesis: There is no such thing as atheist activism or proselytisation.

Some religious people find some atheists to be "loud", too loud.

I don't understand that. When I look around on YouTube or RF I see almost no atheist activism. What I see is re-activism. The typical video by "loud" atheists is a reaction video to a theists video. Pro-active atheist propaganda is hard to find if not non existent.

And how could it. Atheism has no message on its own. Atheism is always a reaction to theism. If there were no theists, there wouldn't be atheists.

So, what theists are really condemning is atheists talking back.

Thoughts? Refutations?

Yes, I can agree with this. Most people have been exposed to religion and theism to some degree, and there will always be those who "reject the programming," so to speak. In past eras, people who didn't believe were considered heretics and punished because of their lack of belief. So many would-be atheists probably kept their mouths shut and pretended to believe, just to avoid such horrific punishments, tortures, and methods of execution.

Now that there are some countries where religionists can't impose such things on unbelievers, the religionists have become upset about it.

 

[Nimos]

I am religious, but not a theist.
So that one doesn't work in my case.
That fun starts with in general the idea of a good, healthy and productive life. And for that you have non-religious people, who claim truth/proof/evidence and claim it is not about opinions.

Well if you do not follow any "rules" or moral guidance given to you by a deist, then sure.

But in terms of what I'm talking about there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Quintessence]

Atheism is literally nothing but reactionism. It's the literal meaning of the "A" in the word. Just ask any atheist and they will tell you ad nauseam how they have no god beliefs. All the while proclaiming that gods don't exist unless and until proven to exist, to the atheist, by his own criteria.

He is literally all reaction and no content.

I'd agree that atheism is inherently a reaction the prevailing culture's conception of theism, but it is a little unfair to say this reaction has no content. Countercultural movements involving negations of mainstream norms have been hugely important throughout history. Granted, this mostly happens through going beyond the superficiality of being reactionary and proposing alternatives, which gets bound up in the identity of the reactionary movement in most cases. This is probably why many of us don't conceptualize atheism as "just" being about rejection of Abrahamic god-concepts but extending beyond that to include other ideas that are used as alternatives.

All that said I think the OP also needs to be careful assuming that theist objections to the counterculture of atheism is a objection to that demographic "talking back" as they put it, in part because of the complications described above. Atheism isn't "just" atheism, just like theism isn't "just" theism. There's usually a whole slough of stuff that goes along with it, and while that stuff varies, there's a lot of room for heated and civil disagreement on those finer points. The answer to the complicated question "what is a god anyway?" alone provides ripe pickings for that discussion.

 

[Kenny]

If science is "anti-god" then why do you use medicine and technology?

y

Science, actually, isn't anti-God... God created it. We really don't deny science. in some cases we simply don't agree with your interpretation of science

Would you call a bowl of batter a cake?

Bad analogy... which one is not a human?

Spoiler: which one is a child

Not when so many Christians do what they can to deny rights and freedom for those who are LGBT.

How do you define "humanism" and how do you see it incorporated into government?
Governments should be secular - which means religiously neutral, NOT anti-religion - as this is necessary for a free and fair society. Otherwise you end up with theocracy, which is a form of tyranny.

I understand your statement... I just don't agree with it nor should governments be 100% secular. Humanism, ends up being tyranny as it is man deciding what society should look like and will not be religion neutral. We have already seen that in practice.

Sure, if you want to count false equivalencies

Yours?

 

[Altfish]

Well, it is always about privilege. The last one left in the Western cultural discourse, is the privilege of the normal people versus the neuro diverse.
So it is just a variant of that for the White and Christians.

I'm ignorant about the normal v neuro diverse conflict but, yes, it is about privilege, the whites have it and (in the west) the Christians have it.

 

[Audie]

This is, of course, a reaction to the thread Typical atheists vs. Online atheists

Thesis: There is no such thing as atheist activism or proselytisation.

Some religious people find some atheists to be "loud", too loud.

I don't understand that. When I look around on YouTube or RF I see almost no atheist activism. What I see is re-activism. The typical video by "loud" atheists is a reaction video to a theists video. Pro-active atheist propaganda is hard to find if not non existent.

And how could it. Atheism has no message on its own. Atheism is always a reaction to theism. If there were no theists, there wouldn't be atheists.

So, what theists are really condemning is atheists talking back.

Thoughts? Refutations?

They had all the power at one time are
very touchy about any further inroads

 

[We Never Know]

Indeed, you correctly identify the problems; it is the case that the privileged (ie Whites and Christians) object to their 'rights' being chipped away at.
But you solution is not right. Silence is NOT an option

Too many times media story headlines start off with "black man" or "white man".
Why not just say "a man"? Because they keep the race issue burning that way IMO.

 

[Audie]

I'm ignorant about the normal v neuro diverse conflict but, yes, it is about privilege, the whites have it and (in the west) the Christians have it.

I had all the privilege I could use, and
more, when I lived in the USA.

I could have taken advantage of the
extra privileges open to " minority" women.

 

[Audie]

Identity is very important to people these days. What tribe they see themselves being in.

What tribe do you identify with