asked a Pagan?

[Gentoo]

Awww, man, and I had to be at work when this thread was started

Well, I'm here too in order to answer any questions, should there be any that need answering.

Though I'll warn that Mike, Gentoo and I may have differing answers for some questions as we all follow different Pagan religions.

I've been trying to remember to mention that my answers are just MY answers on how I view these things, everyone has different ways of seeing the same thing

 

[Circle_One]

But basically the defining factor of paganism is many entitites or gods?

I'll answer this from my perspective, so you can get understand how different each Pagan path is, after reading Gentoo's explanation on how she views deities, if no one minds

 

[CDRaider]

I'd love as many opinions as possible. I like getting all the perspectives so I feel like I can communicate somewhat intellegently abotu the subject.

 

[Circle_One]

Ok, here goes (I'll try to make it as short and easily understandable as possible).

Gentoo explained that she is Polytheistic, while Guitar's Cry is Monotheistic, yet they are both Pagan. I however, cannot be described as either (yeah, it tends to be a little confusing ). My religion, Kemetic Reconstructionism is neither Polytheistic or Monotheistic. It is instead, more of a Polytheistic Monolatry.

Kemetics believe that ALL Gods and Goddesses are one. We call this power Netjer. Netjer is the ONE. THE God with many forms (seperate deities, all lesser Gods, who each rule over their own seperate thing).

When Netjer was "created" (I use the term loosely as there isn't much on how It came into being.. It, I suppose, just always was), It was worshipped by all, but soon came to realize that not everyone felt connected with It. It, however, loved everyone and wanted everyone to love It, so in order to connect with each of It's worshippers and to have them connect with It and feel personally close to It, It "divided" itself into many different forms (lesser deities) and gave each seperate form ruling over something specific.

Each God and Goddess is an intrinsic Whole. A Netjer in itself, but all together, make up the supreme Netjer. If you were to imagine Netjer as a jewel, each God and Goddess would be a seperate facet of this jewel.

Each of these facets has a personality, a way of doing things, and certain areas of human activity in which It takes an interest. All of the Names together make up the Whole of Netjer.

Am I losing you yet? If I am, sorry, I'm almost done, promise.

Now, as for ME, personally, though I'm Kemetic, I'm also Pagan (where as the ancient Kemetics weren't). I worship each "facet" as a whole and seperate deity.

In MY beliefs, there is an ascending status of the Gods and Goddesses I worship.

For example, as a Pagan, I have one main Goddess and one main God that I woship. Mine are Isis and Osiris, and all the other Gods and Goddesses are lesser in status (though not in value) to me.

The Ancient religion of Kemeticism was a Monolatry. My Pagan side feels more intune with Polytheism. For this reason, I consider my path a Polytheistic Monolatry

Does that make sense to you?

 

[Gentoo]

Makes sense to me

 

[CDRaider]

Ok, here goes (I'll try to make it as short and easily understandable as possible).

Gentoo explained that she is Polytheistic, while Guitar's Cry is Monotheistic, yet they are both Pagan. I however, cannot be described as either (yeah, it tends to be a little confusing ). My religion, Kemetic Reconstructionism is neither Polytheistic or Monotheistic. It is instead, more of a Polytheistic Monolatry.

Kemetics believe that ALL Gods and Goddesses are one. We call this power Netjer. Netjer is the ONE. THE God with many forms (seperate deities, all lesser Gods, who each rule over their own seperate thing).

When Netjer was "created" (I use the term loosely as there isn't much on how It came into being.. It, I suppose, just always was), It was worshipped by all, but soon came to realize that not everyone felt connected with It. It, however, loved everyone and wanted everyone to love It, so in order to connect with each of It's worshippers and to have them connect with It and feel personally close to It, It "divided" itself into many different forms (lesser deities) and gave each seperate form ruling over something specific.

Each God and Goddess is an intrinsic Whole. A Netjer in itself, but all together, make up the supreme Netjer. If you were to imagine Netjer as a jewel, each God and Goddess would be a seperate facet of this jewel.

Each of these facets has a personality, a way of doing things, and certain areas of human activity in which It takes an interest. All of the Names together make up the Whole of Netjer.

Am I losing you yet? If I am, sorry, I'm almost done, promise.

Now, as for ME, personally, though I'm Kemetic, I'm also Pagan (where as the ancient Kemetics weren't). I worship each "facet" as a whole and seperate deity.

In MY beliefs, there is an ascending status of the Gods and Goddesses I worship.

For example, as a Pagan, I have one main Goddess and one main God that I woship. Mine are Isis and Osiris, and all the other Gods and Goddesses are lesser in status (though not in value) to me.

The Ancient religion of Kemeticism was a Monolatry. My Pagan side feels more intune with Polytheism. For this reason, I consider my path a Polytheistic Monolatry

Does that make sense to you?

So... sorry to bug you with ANOTHER question... My boyfriend is Baha'i. When I asked him how they can believe in all nine prophets he said to imagine God as the light. The prophets are all mirrors. They are different shapes and sizes and decorated and cut differently but they all reflect the same light.

Its that the same kind of way??? I learn better if I can relate it to things I already know.

 

[Gentoo]

So... sorry to bug you with ANOTHER question... My boyfriend is Baha'i. When I asked him how they can believe in all nine prophets he said to imagine God as the light. The prophets are all mirrors. They are different shapes and sizes and decorated and cut differently but they all reflect the same light.

Its that the same kind of way??? I learn better if I can relate it to things I already know.

As I understand it, sorta kinda... I don't know much/anything about Baha'i, but with that analogy, the mirrors are just reflecting what was already there. These gods are separate beings but can combine to form a greater one. The greater being would not be the same if any one of the separate ones weren't there, whereas the light would still be shining all the same if one of the prophets weren't there.

Do I have that right Circle_One?

 

[Circle_One]

As I understand it, sorta kinda... I don't know much/anything about Baha'i, but with that analogy, the mirrors are just reflecting what was already there. These gods are separate beings but can combine to form a greater one. The greater being would not be the same if any one of the separate ones weren't there, whereas the light would still be shining all the same if one of the prophets weren't there.

Do I have that right Circle_One?

Exactly.

To go back to my jewel analogy, if one of the facets of the jewel (one of the Gods of Kemet) were flawed in some way, the entirety of Netjer would be changed. It would still intrinsically be Netjer, however, it would no longer the same priceless jewel as we know it, because it would be flawed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can also answer questions, if anyone want a different pagan religion's perspective, such as the pentagram/pentalce issue. I have heard and read litteraly dozens of interpretations, the most common being the pentagram has a one point at the top, the pentacle has one at the bottom, and vice versa. Personally, I just call any 5-point star enclosed by a circle a pentagram. Allthough technically, any 5-pointed star, enclosed or not, could be called a pentagram.

 

[Mike182]

Hey Blayze, i didn't know you were Kemetic! nice!

So do your rituals effect the deities in anyway? Gain you favor or the like?

in my oppinion, they do to an extent, but even people who do not perform rituals gain favor with various Gods simply by being how they are - i'm quite a deep, thoughtful person (ok, so sometimes it doesn't show....) which means i would naturally gain favor with Gods who are associated with knowledge.

But basically the defining factor of paganism is many entitites or gods?

and thus enters Mike

i have changed my opinion on this quiet a few times, but at the moment i lean towards the idea that the Gods are individual, some have more power than others, some are friendlier than others, some are abbrasive, some are tempered, some are very loving, and some simply don't have the time for people. i see the gods as being very human, but entirely spiritual.

for instance, if i am doing ceremonial magic for something, and i want to invoke one of my Goddesses, i will do so. she may not turn up, she may be in africa and not have time for me at the moment, or she might have all the time in the world. i'm struggling to phrase this because my brain is tired, so i'll get back to this, but my view differs from both C1's and Gentoo's on this question

 

[CDRaider]

for instance, if i am doing ceremonial magic for something, and i want to invoke one of my Goddesses, i will do so. she may not turn up, she may be in africa and not have time for me at the moment, or she might have all the time in the world. i'm struggling to phrase this because my brain is tired, so i'll get back to this, but my view differs from both C1's and Gentoo's on this question

So does that mean to you personally that the Gods or Goddesses are manifested on earth or their attention or spirit is occupied at the moment?

 

[Circle_One]

Ok, so I've got some time to kill, so I think I'm going to go back through this thread and answer the questions that my faith differs in answer on

 

[Gentoo]

Ok, so I've got some time to kill, so I think I'm going to go back through this thread and answer the questions that my faith differs in answer on

Feel free to go back to any of the previous ones to but in your info, that's what I did

 

[Mike182]

So does that mean to you personally that the Gods or Goddesses are manifested on earth or their attention or spirit is occupied at the moment?

why should the Gods not have their own business, just like you or I do? they may be occupied, they may have time to spare - you have to remember that i don't believe that my Gods are the all knowing, all being, all powerful kind

 

[Gentoo]

why should the Gods not have their own business, just like you or I do? they may be occupied, they may have time to spare - you have to remember that i don't believe that my Gods are the all knowing, all being, all powerful kind

I view the Gods as having their own lives too, and that they expect us to try and solve our own problems before coming to them. I like that independance, but security in knowing that they are there when things get out of hand.

 

[Circle_One]

Death:
We (Kemetics) believe that when we die, we are sent to be judged by Ma'at. She weighs our heart on her scale with an ostrich feather. If our heart is lighter than the feather, we then become what is called "Akhu" (Blessed Ancestors). We are welcomed into the Valley of the Reeds, or Duat, by Osiris and there we reside eternally in peace in his arms and have the ability to communicate with humans on Earth.

If our heart proves to heavy with sin (and therefore heavier than Ma'at's feather), it is fed to Ammut(Ammit), a Monster/Goddess with the head of a crocodile, the front quarters of a lioness and the hindquarters of a hippopotomus, and we are destroyed forever.

If a person flees judgement ir gets lost along the way, they will become "Muet", an angry dead person and will forever terrorize its living decendants.

Membership:
There's no specific necessity for membership into Kemetic Reconstructionism, however there are Initiation Rituals in Kemetic Orthodoxy done as a Right of Passage. There are also other specific initiation rituals that are done, though they are not mandatory. Rootnaming, for example, is a ritual done to welcome a child born into the practice of Kemeticism and give him or her a name. Shemsu Naming is another, done after puberty for children, if they decide to stick with their faith and devote themselves wholeheartedly to it, putting it before all else. Here they choose a new Shemsu name in accordance with their own specific God or Goddess.

What about the whole idea of magic and spells being connected to peganism? What branches are those connected to if any or if all? And to what extent can these spells or the like effect other people/nature.

There is no specific answer for this question, as there are no specific Paths or Traditions that are obligated to or not to practice Magick. That choice is of the practioner him/herself and no one else.

There are Kemetics that spellwork and there are some who don't, just like with Wicca, Druidry, Asatru, etc.

And as Gentoo already pointed out, there is a difference between any specific religion and Witchcraft in itself. Witchcraft a craft that one practices, Wicca, for example, is the specific religion that one follows. The two are not interchangable, though many mistake them to be.

So do your rituals effect the deities in anyway?

Personally, I feel that my rituals bring me physically and emotionally closer to my Deities.

For me, gaining favor doesn't have much to do with it, as Netjer loves me regardless and always will. My seperate Gods and Goddesses love me because I love, respect and revere them. I am able to physically show this love through my rituals. My Deities love being close to me as much as I love being close to them so daily rituals and worship make all of us happy. They allow me to physically feel their love and warmth and allow them to be reminded just how much I love them.

Meaning are they deities like roman-like as in they are human like and can be in that for or are they like taoism where they are spiritual entities that are not manifested?

My Deities are not physical beings, as in, I can touch them, however they are human-like in that, as Mike said, they each have their own personality, character traits, strengths, weaknesses, annoyances, emotions, etc.

So does that mean to you personally that the Gods or Goddesses are manifested on earth or their attention or spirit is occupied at the moment?

I have to go with Mike and Gentoo on this. I pretty much feel the same way. While my Deities are not physically manifested here on Earth, they do have their own "lives" (for lack of a better word) and are not there to tend to my every whim and desire. They are there when I need them or simply when they want to be.

To me, they are the one friend I can turn to in times of need and know that they will always be there for me with soothing love, though at the same time, they allow me to make my own mistakes and fall, if that is what I must do. However, if I do fall, I know they will be there to help me gather myself to try once again.

They've never failed me when I've truly needed them though, nor do I think they ever would.

 

[Circle_One]

Wow, sorry for the extremely long post.

 

[Mike182]

Death:
We (Kemetics) believe that when we die, we are sent to be judged by Ma'at. She weighs our heart on her scale with an ostrich feather. If our heart is lighter than the feather, we then become what is called "Akhu" (Blessed Ancestors). We are welcomed into the Valley of the Reeds, or Duat, by Osiris and there we reside eternally in peace in his arms and have the ability to communicate with humans on Earth.

If our heart proves to heavy with sin (and therefore heavier than Ma'at's feather), it is fed to Ammut(Ammit), a Monster/Goddess with the head of a crocodile, the front quarters of a lioness and the hindquarters of a hippopotomus, and we are destroyed forever.

If a person flees judgement ir gets lost along the way, they will become "Muet", an angry dead person and will forever terrorize its living decendants.

i want to poke more into this belief, if i may?

what does your Kemetic religion see as sin? what sort of person's heart proves heavier than Ma'at's feather?

 

[MaddLlama]

Don't be sorry, I enjoyed reading that. I never met a Kemetic before.

I don't suppose there's someone out there who could give me a similar overview of some of the other cultural orthodoxies, like Celtic and Hellenic reconstruction?

 

[Mike182]

Don't be sorry, I enjoyed reading that. I never met a Kemetic before.

I don't suppose there's someone out there who could give me a similar overview of some of the other cultural orthodoxies, like Celtic and Hellenic reconstruction?

Draka and Turk are big on the Hellenic side, and Meggie is big on the dianic tradition, i can poke them all respectively with a big stick if you'd like? :devil:

if no one minds, although this is Pagan DIR forum, i'd quite like to invite Danisty to post her beliefs on these questions as well, i think that would make for an interesting discussion.... perhaps this thread should go to comparative religion?