asked a Pagan?

[Mike182]

so, anyone got any random questions about Paganism that they never dared ask?

if i can't answer it, i'm pretty sure i know someone who can

 

[CDRaider]

Acutally can you give me a brief overview of the things like veiws on death, marriage, virginity and sex before marriage, what are the requirements for 'membership' and are their any rituals and such associated?

Basically, can you give me a general overview? I've had a ton or things told to me and I don't really know what to believe.

 

[MaddLlama]

Why are there Pagans who still believe that Margret Murray was right? Or, at least why are there Pagans that still spout the "we're an ancient religion" line without doing any real research? I suspect that's a topic for a whole 'nother thread.

Second, what's the difference between saying "pentagram" and "pentacle"? I always thought that the symbol itself was called the pentacle, but I read recently that the proper name for the symbol is the pentagram, and the term "pentacle" is specifically referring to the 3-dimensional version of the pentagram, such as that for jewelry or a symbol for an altar. What gives?

 

[Hema]

Is it true that the word "pagan" was originally a derogatory word? If so, how come people classify themselves as pagan?

 

[Mike182]

Acutally can you give me a brief overview of the things like veiws on death, marriage, virginity and sex before marriage, what are the requirements for 'membership' and are their any rituals and such associated?

Basically, can you give me a general overview? I've had a ton or things told to me and I don't really know what to believe.

Death:
some Pagans believe in what could be called a form of heaven, "summer lands", different people have different images, i like the image of a vast field with forest areas, streams and rivers, a mountain range - a spiritual world where our spirits (souls) freely live with other spirits and deities

some Pagans believe in reincarnation, some believe reincarnation will be a choice (ie, we can choose some of our surroundings, family etc) and some believe it is assigned to us through the Karma of past lives.

Marriage:
the Pagan marriage tradition is a Handfasting, and is a ritual mostly performed outside, set up to the couple's liking (favourite incense, flowers, friends casting circle/calling quaters) - the wording also depends upon the couple, but will be along the lines of each member of the couple presents themselves to the high priest/priestess, presents their guardian (parent/friend - kinda like bridesmaids and best man) and declared commitment to the other member of the couple. the high priest will tie their hands together in what is usually a white chord, and they recieve the blessing of x God and/or x Goddess.

drinking and general merry making usually follows.

as far as i know, no Pagan Handfastings are legally recognised, so it is common practise to have a civil wedding either before or after the Pagan ceremony.

Virginity and sex before marriage:
most Pagan traditions have no moral authority prohibiting sex before handfasting, though i must admit the only authority i am really familiar with in Pagan traditions is the Wiccan Rede*, a Poem from 1974, the final words being the main moral point: "these eight words the rede fulfill, an' it harm none, do as yee will" - relating this to sex, any act that is consentual is a-ok!

Membership:
depends entirely upon the tradition and practices of individual groups/gatherings. i haven't done any research into differen initiation ceremonies, or how different traiditions typically govern their membership, so i will have to get back to you on this one.

Thanks for these questions, if you have any other questions to further clarify any of these answers, please jump right in and ask them!

 

[ayani]

what is the general pagan view of suffering- e.g why suffering exists, the purpose it serves, what humans can do about it...

thank you!

 

[Mike182]

Why are there Pagans who still believe that Margret Murray was right? Or, at least why are there Pagans that still spout the "we're an ancient religion" line without doing any real research? I suspect that's a topic for a whole 'nother thread.

Second, what's the difference between saying "pentagram" and "pentacle"? I always thought that the symbol itself was called the pentacle, but I read recently that the proper name for the symbol is the pentagram, and the term "pentacle" is specifically referring to the 3-dimensional version of the pentagram, such as that for jewelry or a symbol for an altar. What gives?

wow, let's not reserve the hard ones 'till later

Margaret Murray, very interesting subject! i haven't done much reading on her thesis, admittedly i only have a vague understanding of her crazy brainy, i'll do some researching and post another thread on her later, if that's ok with you?

the pentagram and the pentacle? the 5 pointed star is the pentacle, and the 5 pointed star with a ring around it is the pentagram - most jewlers put a ring around the pentacle because it just looks better, i wasn't aware of any Pagan related significance in this

 

[MaddLlama]

Sorry ^_^;;

Here's some good reading on Murray:

http://wicca.timerift.net/murray.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Murray

 

[Mike182]

Is it true that the word "pagan" was originally a derogatory word? If so, how come people classify themselves as pagan?

it was true, yes. are you ready for History101 by Prof. Mike182?

as the new Christian religion spread, urban areas such as rome, corinth, alexandria etc, but it hardly took roots in rural areas. as Christianity became the popular religion, after constantine etc, Pagan became a derogatory word for those who were not Christian (the Latin Paganus meaning rural, as a noun, Pagan literally mean country dweller)

why do people use a derogatory word to classify themselves as? why did the people called "Puritans" in the late 15th century accept their label with pride? it was a label put on them to set their beliefs apart from the norm, so it was derogatory in a social sense, we have grown out of that social context so i no longer see a derogatory value in the term "pagan"

does make sense? i paraphrased parts of the wiki article, you can find the whole thing here

 

[Hema]

it was true, yes. are you ready for History101 by Prof. Mike182?

as the new Christian religion spread, urban areas such as rome, corinth, alexandria etc, but it hardly took roots in rural areas. as Christianity became the popular religion, after constantine etc, Pagan became a derogatory word for those who were not Christian (the Latin Paganus meaning rural, as a noun, Pagan literally mean country dweller)

why do people use a derogatory word to classify themselves as? why did the people called "Puritans" in the late 15th century accept their label with pride? it was a label put on them to set their beliefs apart from the norm, so it was derogatory in a social sense, we have grown out of that social context so i no longer see a derogatory value in the term "pagan"

does make sense? i paraphrased parts of the wiki article, you can find the whole thing here

Thank you Professor! Yes, that does make sense.

 

[Mike182]

what is the general pagan view of suffering- e.g why suffering exists, the purpose it serves, what humans can do about it...

thank you!

a brilliant question, thanks for this one!

why does suffering exist? suffering has many causes:

1) suffering caused by nasty people towards other people, this is sadly a result of nasty people having free will.

2) natural suffering, such as volcanoes, tornadoes, earth quakes etc hurting people in their way. i am no geographer/environmental scientist, but if volcanoes didn't explode, the pressure would mount up in the earth and the whole world would explode - natural evils are natures lesser of two evils.

3) disease, medicines can cure some diseases, releave the symptoms of others, but disease will always be apart of our world.

4) famine, the world powers have not yet gotten their act together and eliminated world poverty

5) war and conflicts will always exist so long as their are politicians.

in Christian theology, suffering is a *problem* because a God that is all loving and has the power to stop this suffering would surely stop it, but the suffering goes on - this is a *problem* because either God doesn't exist, or he is not all loving or all powerful.

in Pagan theology, this isn't really an issue, because not many Pagans claim their Gods to be all loving or all powerful, so really we just accept that suffering exists, and do what we can to help. does it serve a purpose? a tough question. i have grown through suffering the painful events of my life, if i hadn't suffered them i would not have grown to where i am now, a more mature person. but people suffer an aweful lot more that i do, i would never deny that - people die of hunger, thirst, disease every few seconds.

everyone has to die, that is a given, and it is impossible to assure you that your death will not be painful - but i think the general Pagan view is that life has to go on, it is good to do what we can to help but we have to do it, and we have to keep in mind that we can't do everything.

i think most Pagans would take a humanitarian approach to suffering, while some may believe the Gods work through the arts of Reiki and energy healing, and they may work towards comfoting those in need, it is ultimatley up to us to help those who are suffering.

 

[Mike182]

Mike, as a Goth yourself, do you see a connection between Goth culture, Occultism, and Paganism?

 

[Mike182]

Mike, as a Goth yourself, do you see a connection between Goth culture, Occultism, and Paganism?

Greetings young Mike, what a curious mind!

Goth culture is not in any way linked with Occultism or Paganism, however in my experience those who are involved in Goth culture are more open to accepting the principles that are the basis of Occultism and Paganism.

of course there are a lot of individual people who are open to Occultism and Paganism who are not involved in Goth culture, but as a group, Goths are the most open to Occultims and Paganism in my oppinion.

 

[Gentoo]

the pentagram and the pentacle? the 5 pointed star is the pentacle, and the 5 pointed star with a ring around it is the pentagram - most jewlers put a ring around the pentacle because it just looks better, i wasn't aware of any Pagan related significance in this

I was under the impression that it was the other way around, that the pentacle had the circle and the circle was to represent a sense of unity within all five elements, tie them all together and such...

 

[ayani]

thank you, Mike! :yes: very much.

 

[Gentoo]

I actually have a question and would like another Pagan's input.

The purpose of the Wicca oath is to keep the coven and covendom a secret, break it and you have to face the wrath of the Goddess. As a solitary, I feel that it is unnecessary to take the oath, as there is no coven or covendom to keep a secret. What are your thoughts?

 

[Bishka]

I actually have a question and would like another Pagan's input.

The purpose of the Wicca oath is to keep the coven and covendom a secret, break it and you have to face the wrath of the Goddess. As a solitary, I feel that it is unnecessary to take the oath, as there is no coven or covendom to keep a secret. What are your thoughts?

I didn't know this, why is this? And do any pagans here do this?

 

[Gentoo]

I didn't know this, why is this? And do any pagans here do this?

The Oath is mainly for Traditions, to keep the group and it's members safe from people who might wish/do them harm. It's taken (at least in the Gardnerian Tradition) during a person's first Initiation after studying the art as a dedicant for a a year and a day. The Oath also bars members from talking about what goes on in the Circle as well, for much of the same reasons...

 

[McBell]

Is it true that the word "pagan" was originally a derogatory word? If so, how come people classify themselves as pagan?

Here is some etymology for the word 'pagan'

pagan c.1375, from L.L. paganus "pagan," in classical L. "villager, rustic, civilian," from pagus "rural district," originally "district limited by markers," thus related to pangere "to fix, fasten," from PIE base *pag- "to fix" (see pact). Religious sense is often said to derive from conservative rural adherence to the old gods after the Christianization of Roman towns and cities; but the word in this sense predates that period in Church history, and it is more likely derived from the use of paganus in Roman military jargon for "civilian, incompetent soldier," which Christians (Tertullian, c.202; Augustine) picked up with the military imagery of the early Church (e.g. milites "soldier of Christ," etc.). Applied to modern pantheists and nature-worshippers from 1908. Paganism is attested from 1433.

source

 

[Bishka]

The Oath is mainly for Traditions, to keep the group and it's members safe from people who might wish/do them harm. It's taken (at least in the Gardnerian Tradition) during a person's first Initiation after studying the art as a dedicant for a a year and a day. The Oath also bars members from talking about what goes on in the Circle as well, for much of the same reasons...

Hmm..didn't know that.