Ask your question about Labor Unions

[Debunker]

Impressive.

Thank you sir. I too am impressed at how the forum has accepted the truth with such polite behavior. The way you guys refuse to answer my simple inquires is refreshing and the name calling, not you but others, is remarkable. I do enjoy the sarcasms and admission of defeat from the helplessness of the liberal argument.

 

[Engyo]

Thank you sir. I too am impressed at how the forum has accepted the truth with such polite behavior. The way you guys refuse to answer my simple inquires is refreshing and the name calling, not you but others, is remarkable. I do enjoy the sarcasms and admission of defeat from the helplessness of the liberal argument.

Helpless to penetrate certain closed minds?

 

[Debunker]

Obviously not you.........but then I would expect that.

I take it your mad at me. It is much more fun to be cool. It's just a little debate.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I have a question about the "unrest," rather than about the union. What is the state's beef against collective bargaining rights?

This is just my opinion. Labor unions are very good about educating workers on their issues. People in labor unions tend to vote democratic. Even born again Christians who are members of labor unions tend to vote in higher percentage for the dems then most other born again Christians. The financial problems of the state of Wisconsin is just the newest reason to under cut the labor unions. In my home state California every few years some proposition turns up on the ballot to make it impossible for unions to raise money for campaign contributions. This has been shot down over and over again. Also there is big money from many pro industry groups who what to see the end of unions. The GOP and labor unions are natural enemies, it can be no surprise that the right wants to labor unions out of public life.

 

[Gloone]

I believe it needs to be as equal a partnership as possible. That rarely happens in practice, however. Laws and regulations tend to be put in place when one side or other egregiously overbalances the equation, and creates either embarassments or atrocities, or both.

You seem to be saying that such things can no longer happen in the 21st century.

I don't agree with that particular opinion.

Well you don't have to worry about it because they won't be around much longer anyways unless a miracle occurs with more bailouts under pubs and dems. Which won't be happening. And they will remain on life support until they are done. They cause more problems than the trouble they are worth. I will be glad when they are gone for good.

Daily Kos: Class and Labor:The Collapse of American Unions
How Union Membership Has Changed Over 25 Years : IMT Industry Market Trends

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

And they will remain on life support until they are done. They cause more problems than the trouble they are worth. I will be glad when they are gone for good.

Sorry to disappoint you but there has been a slight pick up in union growth in the last 5 years. So don't count us out yet. This is why there is so much push back from the right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/29labor.html?_r=1

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry to disappoint you but there has been a slight pick up in union growth in the last 5 years. So don't count us out yet. This is why there is so much push back from the right.

You don't think that pushing back could be due to higher costs imposed by unions?
I wouldn't discount that. I've seen first hand how unions inflate costs terribly.

 

[Engyo]

I take it your mad at me. It is much more fun to be cool. It's just a little debate.

Where did you get mad from? I'm laughing over here.

 

[Gloone]

Sorry to disappoint you but there has been a slight pick up in union growth in the last 5 years. So don't count us out yet. This is why there is so much push back from the right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/29labor.html?_r=1

That is right when Bush did all of those stupid bailouts. You can thank him for that.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

That is right when Bush did all of those stupid bailouts. You can thank him for that.

Has nothing to do with that. There is an Organizing movement in unions over the last 5 years the losses have stabilized for sometime now. Bigger parts of the union expenses now go to organizing. There has been some pick since 2008 as I understand it.

 

[Gloone]

Has nothing to do with that. There is an Organizing movement in unions over the last 5 years the losses have stabilized for sometime now. Bigger parts of the union expenses now go to organizing. There has been some pick since 2008 as I understand it.

It has fallen even more since then!

In 2010, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of a union--was 11.9 percent, down from 12.3 percent a year earlier, the U.S.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

It has fallen even more since then!

In 2010, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of a union--was 11.9 percent, down from 12.3 percent a year earlier, the U.S.

Thank you for pointing this out its clear I did not keep up with the newest stats.

This is of no surprise with how many states are the middle of bad economic times. In my county alone 100s of union workers have be laid off. Right as we speak my wife is going over a lay off lists at work. To me this is not someting that is joyful but sad. Many families are having a hard time and are suffering. The jobs of state workers that seem to be most effected are folks like CPS workers who already under staffed. In my county union workers agreed to a large pay cut then management laid off people any way. After saying they would not. The county supervisors and judges both got their cost of living increase. The 3 pro labor supervisor voted against the pay raise. A HR person told my wife that was the plan all along. Sometimes union workers get press that they a greedy and only want more money. When they make compromises that never hits the papers.

Many people went into Government work over the private sector because they believe there jobs would be safe and they will have retirement. They gave up much larger pay checks for this. Now many are getting laid off. One women one year before retirement. To me this is nothing but sad. These are real people with real kids and families. We the people have made a commitment to these people we must try to support it the best we can.

Teachers are being laid off police fire ect. 2008 these lay off had not started in full force. Even when the economy picks up it will be some time before these good jobs return. We will see if the unions will continue to grow in the future.


Even SEIU's membership that has grown from around 600,000 in 1980 to more than 2 million today are now dropping in numbers. These are just not numbers but real people.

 

[dust1n]

I did not ask you to take my word. Just read the FMLA site that explains the law.

Nah, I think my friend has more insight to labor laws that your government website showing the exact law.

 

[dust1n]

Sense you are a Christian, it astonishes me that you think so poorly of your own country. It is not the USA that is not helping our fellow man. You can not name a country that has helped its fellow man more, can you?

In March 1997, a joint poll by the Washington Post, Harvard University and the Kaiser Family Foundation asked Americans which area of federal expenditure they thought was the largest. Was it Social Security (which actually constituted about a quarter of the budget)? Medicare? Military spending? Sixty-four percent of respondents said it was foreign aid—when in reality foreign aid made up only about 1 percent of total outlays (Washington Post, 3/29/97).

Today, Americans think about 20 percent of the federal budget goes toward foreign aid. When told the actual figure for U.S. foreign aid giving (about 1.6 percent of the discretionary budget), most respondents said they did not believe the number was the full amount (Program on International Policy Attitudes, 3/7/05).

It’s no wonder that most Americans think they live in an extremely generous nation: Media reports often quote government officials pointing out that their country is the largest overall aid donor, and the biggest donor of humanitarian aid. But what reporters too often fail to explain is how big the U.S. economy is—more than twice the size of Japan’s, the second largest, and about as big as economies number 3–10 combined. Considered as a portion of the nation’s economy, or of its federal expenditures, the U.S. is actually among the smallest donors of international aid among the world’s developed countries.

The Development Assistance Committee of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development compiles statistics on how much Official Development Assistance the world’s 22 wealthiest countries give each year. The organization’s numbers show that as a portion of Gross National Income (roughly equivalent to GDP), the U.S. now ranks second-to-last in giving, at 0.16 percent. (In 2004, Italy dropped into last place below the U.S.)

The U.S. also gives much less than what the industrialized countries pledged to give at the 1992 Rio Conference, which was 0.7 percent of their GDP. U.S. development aid, at 0.16 percent of GDP, represents less than one-quarter of this promise.

While foreign aid giving is hardly the only issue, domestic or international, on which Americans hold distinctly incorrect beliefs—misperceptions around the circumstances of the Iraq War are another good recent example—the disparity between the public’s perception and the truth in this case is abnormally large. A look at media coverage of U.S. foreign aid giving in the days after the Indian Ocean tsunami disaster of December 26, 2004 helps reveal why Americans might think they’re more generous than they are.

...

Williams continued with another standard defense of American generosity: “And so it doesn’t properly represent the degree of largess and philanthropy that takes place. Either if you consider just government, or if you consider, in addition, an even larger sector, the private sector. Private giving is tremendous in this country.”

American private giving during the tsunami crisis was significant, indeed; one month after the tsunami, it was over $400 million, outpacing the U.S. government pledge of $350 million. But just as with government donations, the private giving of Americans was smaller in proportional terms than that of most Western European and Scandinavian countries. That fact didn’t slow down NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams (1/7/05), who said that Americans were “proving all over again why they are known worldwide for their generosity.” Williams made no comment about the generosity of, say, the British or Germans, each of whom sent far more money, per capita, in both private and government donations.

The World’s Most Generous Misers

We have no policies that lead to the destruction of our fellow man.

Really, so when we dropped 7 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, twice as many than the total bombs dropped in Europe and Asia in WWII, the equivalent at the time as a 500-lb per bomb per Vietnamese inhabitant, that policy did not lead to the destruction of our fellow man?[1]

[1] A People's History of the United States

You speak as if it were fact that the USA is the leader in world terror instead of the main defender of liberty in the world, now don't you?

We feed the world and are far from starving the world, but your animosity towards Republicans forces you to deny this fact. What basic rights have we withheld from the citizens of another country? You make claims out of bitterness rather than facts.

I could easily pull up plenty of examples, but seeing how you will ignore the first two rebuttals I gave, I see it pretty much pointless to discuss these things with someone who refuses to look at your information.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I have a job that offers less than 15 hours per week, yet I am still forced to join and pay union dues. If I could choose, I would not have joined as it is 'not' worth the expense. I could certainly understand if it was voluntary, but sadly it isn't.

Originally, unions operated relatively unofficially by non-lazy employees who collaborated together, for free, to figure out what they wanted from their employers. People still do it to some extent, I'm sure, though I detect a severe amount of fear from working class people, at least in this country. The concept of unions are noble, but there comes a point where they suffer from the same issues that every other organization encounters when they get very structured and formalized. They're basically a small insurance company.

 

[Sunstone]

People don't need unions. They need god. Down with unions! Up with the priests!*










* There is now scientific evidence strongly indicating that people are much more likely to become religious if they are financially and economically insecure.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

People don't need unions. They need god. Down with unions! Up with the priests!*










* There is now scientific evidence strongly indicating that people are much more likely to become religious if they are financially and economically insecure.

It's about time some parts of science are willing to be honest and side with the religious. It makes perfect sense that people turn to Gawd when there's no one else to turn to. Who else is going to solve our problems? Good point, Sunstone!

 

[sandandfoam]

Bring back Franco that's what I say.

I think all modern countries should be like his Spain. Workers be damned, peasants impede progress.

Businesses don't need citizens they need consumers. Thanks be to goodness Wall Street is running the White House regardless of whether there's a Reepublican or a Democrat dressing the window.

Markets don't need democracy and accountability. Order and certainty are what matter.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I have a job that offers less than 15 hours per week, yet I am still forced to join and pay union dues. If I could choose, I would not have joined as it is 'not' worth the expense. I could certainly understand if it was voluntary, but sadly it isn't.
.

The labor union is the people who work at you work site (your co-workers). Who has decided that it is a closed shop. This decsion was voted on by the whole bargaining unit. It is the employees who have made this choice, with that said.

I agree with you. Most of the contracts that I have seen, again I am not an expert (I am only talking about my experience) part time workers who only work a few hours a week don't pay union dues. My last contract that I worked under the cut off point was 20 hours a week.

The problem with making this voluntary for full time workers. Labor law dictates that people who don't pay union dues must be represented by the union. With some open shops 1/2 the time of the union rep is used up on non-paying members. This is even more not fair. Also the pay you get has been negotiated by a union rep. This can take weeks even months. The fact is this is extremely expensive. Yet it more then pays for it self with the full time workers who pay union dues.

If I may give you advice. I would read over your union contract.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Markets don't need democracy and accountability. Order and certainty are what matter.

Boy, Wall-Street sure screwed the pooch on that one.

I don't even think the poor fella survived.