Ask a Mormon! (Part Two)

[nutshell]

Thank you once again. What I am refferring to is the fact that the new testmanet Priesthood that Christ established and gave to the apostles is seen in conjuction with offering sacrifices(As all priesthood is). In particulary, inthe old testmanet and inthe new the priest would offer sacrifices in a litrugical(Or worship) context and in many cases they involved the consumation of the sacrifice in eating a meal and celebrating a victory. This was called the "Todah" in Jewish culture, and it is fullfilled in the new testmant as the Eucharist(in Greek) or thanksgiving sacrifice of the Lords supper offered by the aposltes. I was wondering if you priests continued to offer that unbloody propitiatory sacrifice on your alters as did the apostles. And if so also are there any other sacrifices your priesthood offers?

Yes, we have the equivalent of the Eucharist. I believe Katzpur actually has a very good piece comparing the Catholic and LDS sacraments.

 

[DeepShadow]

I respectfully disagree. Just because He uses OT sacrificial language doesn't mean he can't be speaking metaphorically.

Especially if the OT sacrificial language and ceremonies were intended to prefigure the sacrifice of Christ. Requiring His sacrifice to ascribe to the literal forms of a sacrifice meant to symbolize it is not only circular logic, it suggests that Christ is not the divine Source of the sacrifice, but subject to it.

Perhaps this friendly debate should be moved to a separate debate thread.

 

[Katzpur]

Perhaps this friendly debate should be moved to a separate debate thread.

I'm going to do that. I was thinking about it last night, but moving only certain posts within a thread is something I've never done before, and I need to make sure I do it right. I won't have time to do so until later this afternoon. Perhaps you, Polaris, or Athanasius can suggest which debate forum I should move it to. I'm thinking that General Religious Debates might be the only logical place to put it.

 

[athanasius]

I'm going to do that. I was thinking about it last night, but moving only certain posts within a thread is something I've never done before, and I need to make sure I do it right. I won't have time to do so until later this afternoon. Perhaps you, Polaris, or Athanasius can suggest which debate forum I should move it to. I'm thinking that General Religious Debates might be the only logical place to put it.

Is there any way we could move it to a private(Just me and polaris) debate thread? Outsiders really do not help understadning in a good one on one dialgue.

 

[Quiddity]

Is there any way we could move it to a private(Just me and polaris) debate thread? Outsiders really do not help understadning in a good one on one dialgue.

I've moved all posts between you and Polaris. See here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52425

 

[Katzpur]

I've moved all posts between you and Polaris. See here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52425

Thanks, Victor!

 

[nutshell]

Well, if you all don't like my answers, then FINE!!!

 

[DeepShadow]

Well, if you all don't like my answers, then FINE!!!

Huh?

I like your answer. Who was criticizing it?

 

[DeepShadow]

Oh, I see you are referring to Athanasius's request for a private debate. Yes, that's too bad, I was hoping to participate, but that's his choice.

Maybe we'll just set up our own debate on the issue, eh?

 

[Dream Angel]

Well, if you all don't like my answers, then FINE!!!

*Waves*
I like your answers nutshell!

 

[nutshell]

I was just joking.

 

[athanasius]

I have never asked thios question before but.what do Mormons believe about free will? And does the Mormon Church teach that a person can loose his salvation(By turning away from God or rejecting him) and be eternally damned? Just curios thanks!

God bless you all

 

[Aqualung]

I have never asked thios question before but.what do Mormons believe about free will? And does the Mormon Church teach that a person can loose his salvation(By turning away from God or rejecting him) and be eternally damned? Just curios thanks!

God bless you all

We believe free will was the single most important gift that God gave us, so important that he won't take it away to prevent any calamity that comes from misuse of free will.

Blasphemy against the holy ghost is the only unforgivable sin, so the only one that will result in ETERNAL damnation (as opposed to finite punishment in the spirit prison). But, one must have a perfect knowledge of christ to be able to turn away from him in such a manner as to warrant this damnation.

 

[Dream Angel]

We believe free will was the single most important gift that God gave us, so important that he won't take it away to prevent any calamity that comes from misuse of free will.

Blasphemy against the holy ghost is the only unforgivable sin, so the only one that will result in ETERNAL damnation (as opposed to finite punishment in the spirit prison). But, one must have a perfect knowledge of christ to be able to turn away from him in such a manner as to warrant this damnation.

Talking about damnation and the spirit prison. I know the three levels of heaven etc. I found something once (cant remember where) where it was explaining depending on which level you had entered how many years you would spend their before the resurrection and then it was saying something like

On the first morning
On the second morning.... etc etc

It lost me when it said that.... so if someone could explain to me the times which you stay at each and the resurrection (morning/afternoon - first and second) - that would be great!

Thanks!

 

[FFH]

Talking about damnation and the spirit prison. I know the three levels of heaven etc. I found something once (cant remember where) where it was explaining depending on which level you had entered how many years you would spend their before the resurrection and then it was saying something like

On the first morning
On the second morning.... etc etc

It lost me when it said that.... so if someone could explain to me the times which you stay at each and the resurrection (morning/afternoon - first and second) - that would be great!

Thanks!

There will be a morning and an afternoon of the first resurrection, sometime prior to Christ setting up his kingdom here on earth (New Jerusalem).

All those who are found worthy of at least a Terrestrial reward/glory, will be resurrected in either the morning or the afternoon of the first resurrection, when the earth will become a paradise, or similar to the Terrestrial kingdom...

Here's the order of these worlds, in there respective degrees of salvation.

Celestial Kingdom (Christ and the Father dwell here)

Terrestrial Kingdom (Christ will visit here, but not the Father)

Telestial Kingdom (Holy Ghost will visit these, but not Christ or the Father. The majority of those who have ever lived on this earth will live here)

Outer Darkness (Neither the Holy Ghost, nor Christ, nor the Father, will ever visit this place) Reserved for people like Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, etc...those who totally reject God the Father, Christ and deny the Holy Ghost)

That said, we still have the morning and the afternoon of the second resurrection, which happens at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ, personally, upon the earth...when at which time those worthy of Telestial reward will be resurrected (spirit and body will come together) and receive a Telestial reward or be sent to Outer Darkness..

Morning and afternoon of the first resurrection - Beginning of the Millenium
(Those worthy of a Terrestrial or Celestial reward - "Christ's at his coming")

Morning and afternoon of the second resurrection - End of the Millenium
(Those worthy of a Telestial reward or Outer Darkness - not "Christ's at his coming")

 

[Dream Angel]

There will be a morning and an afternoon of the first resurrection, sometime prior to Christ setting up his kingdom here on earth (New Jerusalem).

All those who are found worthy of at least a Terrestrial reward/glory, will be resurrected in either the morning or the afternoon of the first resurrection, when the earth will become a paradise, or similar to the Terrestrial kingdom...

Here;s the order of these worlds, in there respective degrees of salvation.

Celestial Kingdom (Christ and the Father dwell here)

Terrestrial Kingdom (Christ will visit here, but not the Father)

Telestial Kingdom (Holy Ghost will visit these, but not Christ or the Father. The majority of those who have ever lived on this earth will live here)

Outer Darkness (Neither the Holy Ghost, nor Christ, nor the Father, will ever visit this place) Reserved for people like Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, etc...those who totally reject God the Father, Christ and deny the Holy Ghost)

That said, we still have the morning and the afternoon of the second resurrection, which happens at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ, personally, upon the earth...when at which time those worthy of Telestial reward will be resurrected (spirit and body will come together) and receive a Telestial reward or be sent to Outer Darkness..

Morning and afternoon of the first resurrection - Beginning of the Millenium
(Those worthy of a Terrestrial or Celestial reward - "Christ's at his coming")

Morning and afternoon of the second resurrection - End of the Millenium
(Those worthy of a Telestial reward or Outer Darkness - not "Christ's at his coming")

Thanks FFh - thats made it slightly clearer. I am still unsure about it though! Is there a difference between the morning and the afternoon of the resurrection? After the second resurrection - those that get sent to outer darkness - is that then permanent?

 

[FFH]

Thanks FFh - thats made it slightly clearer. I am still unsure about it though! Is there a difference between the morning and the afternoon of the resurrection?

Great question.

If I were to categorize the two resurrections it would be as follows...

Not sure if this is true or not...but here's how it may play out..

Morning of the first resurrection (first resurrection) Those worthy of the Celestial (highest) Kingdom

Afternoon of the first resurrection (second resurrection) Those worthy of the Terrestrial (second highest) Kingdom

Morning of the second resurrection (third resurrection) Those worthy of the Telestial (third highest) Kingdom

Afternoon of the second resurrection (fourth resurrection) Those worthy of Outer Darkness

Those who will "come forth" in the morning, or the afternoon, of the first resurrection, are those who are worthy to be called "Christ's at his coming" and will live with Christ during his personal 1000 year reign on earth....

Many Christians refer to this event (the morning and afternoon of the first resurrection) as the rapture. So in other words there will actually be a first and a second rapture of the saints (righteous) from this earth, prior to Christ setting up his kindgom on the earth.

After the second resurrection - those that get sent to outer darkness - is that then permanent?

From what I understand, Yes, as harsh as that may sound, but think about it, would you want the likes of Hitler roaming the universe for eternity ??? These types of spirits need to be confined...

If there were any chance that they (those who will be sent to Outer Darkness) would change their ways, God would have mercy on them, but those who are sent to Outer Darkness are sent there because they have rebelled against all that is good, and want no part of anything that is good.

They have made their choice to live in darkness, literally...

Why anyone would choose that is beyond my understanding, but some will prefer to live in darkness, rather than in the light of truth, which eminates from God the Father and the Son....

 

[Dream Angel]

Great question.

If I were to categorize the two resurrections it would be as follows...

Not sure if this is true or not...but here's how it may play out..

Morning of the first resurrection (first resurrection) Those worthy of the Celestial (highest) Kingdom

Afternoon of the first resurrection (second resurrection) Those worthy of the Terrestrial (second highest) Kingdom

Morning of the second resurrection (third resurrection) Those worthy of the Telestial (third highest) Kingdom

Afternoon of the second resurrection (fourth resurrection) Those worthy of Outer Darkness

Those who will "come forth" in the morning, or the afternoon, of the first resurrection, are those who are worthy to be called "Christ's at his coming" and will live with Christ during his personal 1000 year reign on earth....

Many Christians refer to this event (the morning and afternoon of the first resurrection) as the rapture. So in other words there will actually be a first and a second rapture of the saints (righteous) from this earth, prior to Christ setting up his kindgom on the earth.

From what I understand, Yes, as harsh as that may sound, but think about it, would you want the likes of Hitler roaming the universe for eternity ??? These types of spirits need to be confined...

If there were any chance that they (those who will be sent to Outer Darkness) would change their ways, God would have mercy on them, but those who are sent to Outer Darkness are sent there because they have rebelled against all that is good, and want no part of anything that is good.

They have made their choice to live in darkness, literally...

Why anyone would choose that is beyond my understanding, but some will prefer to live in darkness, rather than in the light of truth, which eminates from God the Father and the Son....

Thanks FFH - thats clear now! Very good explanantion! and No I certainly wouldnt want the likes of Hitler roaming around the universe for all eternity!

 

[FFH]

Those who do not deny the Holy Ghost (God the Father's spirit), but reject Christ's atoning sacrifice, and the "fulness" of the Father's gospel, will live in the lowest kingdom. which is the Telestial kingdom...

So they will have some light and knowledge. Think of the religions of the earth that fit into this catagory...

Then there are those who prefer to live away from the Father, or rather those who will not accept the "fulness" of the Father and his gospel, but do not reject Christ and his atoning sacrifice for their sins. These are they who will live in the Terrestrial kingdom (second highest kingdom).

Then there are those who accept the Father, and the fulness of his gospel, and have taken advantage of Christ's atonement, and have repented of ALL their sins...These are they who will be worthy to live with God the Father and the Son in the highest kingdom, the Celestial kingdom.

This is the FFH simplified version...

I need to emphasize strongly that repentance of sins is very important, and also determines which kingdom one will inherit...

 

[FFH]

Christ has urged us to follow his example...

"Take up your cross and follow me" Christ has said, which interpreted means, "to deny ourselves of all ungodliness," which takes effort on our part..