Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Dont get too carried away. Today (NH) is Easter...no need to go to confession, right?
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Ask a Catholic
- Thread starter Spiderman
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Dont get too carried away. Today (NH) is Easter...no need to go to confession, right?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Dont get too carried away. Today (NH) is Easter...no need to go to confession, right?
Lol. Absolutely.
Cheers (Really)
Serenity Now
Member
Christ is the entire Church, he built it on Apostolic Succession, which he created. The Apostles were first then all the saints after them that combines into one body which Christ is the center and reason.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Since Christ is the center and reason why would some Catholics say the Church is built on the Apostles? The structure, yes...apostolic traditions but not the Church.
Apples and oranges?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Jesu said, upon this rock, He did not specify that 'the' rock was Peter. Jesu was referring to Himself as the Son of God /metaphor for God representative/, and the church was going to be built upon that, of course. You would not have a ''Christian'' Church, built upon some one who isn't Jesus, unless the church was not about Jesu.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
It's a good question.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I agree with one.
Here Christian Church dodges as usual and make one believe what is not in there meant in the scripture. One may like to read the following:
Let's take a look at what the Bible actually teaches in Matthew 16. In verse 13, Jesus asks His disciples "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" They responded by saying that some people thought Christ was John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the other prophets. "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (verses 15-18)
At first glance, it may appear that Jesus was referring to Peter as "the rock", but we have to keep in mind that the New Testament was written in Greek, not English. This is one instance where the original wording reveals the true meaning of what is being said. The Greek word for Peter is petros, which means "a pebble" or a small stone. On the other hand, the Greek word that Jesus used for rock is petra, meaning "a massive rock" or bedrock. Now we can see that there is an obvious difference! Peter was correct when he stated that Jesus was "the Christ" and it was this profession of truth that the church would be founded upon: Jesus Christ "the chief cornerstone" (Matthew 21:42). Jesus was talking about building His church upon the solid bedrock, not a small pebble.
"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock." (Matthew 7:24-25)
http://www.wordoftruthradio.com/questions/47.html
Regards
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
When your mind is already made up, you either cannot or will not see anything else. No Catholic will ever see this.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Even the World Book Encyclopedia which is not a Catholic book recognizes Peter as the First bishop of Rome and Linus as the second Bishop of Rome and an unbreakable chain of Bishops of Rome to our current pontiff.
Bishop of Rome is more significant than the name Rock
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I think you missed my point.
The Church is built on Christ. Even the CCC says that. The sacraments are built on Christ. Everything is about Christ
NOT Peter
Peter is one of many Apostles (like presidents) who -key word- shaped the Church how it is today. The Church is not built on Peter just as the government is not built on little ol me just because my name means president. Its built on Christ.
The Church is not just the Apostles. Its an Apostolic tradition (tradition not cornerstone). Think of a building. The one who did the design was Christ. The Archetec was Peter. The Apostles "and" the body of Christ built the building.
We give honor to the Saints.
But Christians worship Christ.
Also, looking up an Encyclopedia is like asking a Hindu what the Eucharist means (pretending he knows nothing about the Church and christianity). I try to go to the source especially in regards to religion. In the World History Channel it talks about the Church coming from pagan traditions where the Church agknowledges its history but says opposite, their traditions are all from Christ.
Who should I believe about their own teaching? The Church or the History Channel.
But my points:Church is built on Christ (not Peter)
Apostles shaped the Church (Apostolic tradition)
Peter was the first Bishop but even he knows he isnt Christ.
What am I missing that even the Pope who wrote the CCC knows?
Why are some Catholics mixing up the foundation of their Church with who structured their Church?
Im at a loss.
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powellbr5591
Member
So what's your opinion about the takeover in the past of our lands in Scandinavia? And the destruction of most of the stories of the old gods, of Odin, Thor, Freya, Loki, Tyr, and others?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Can anyone argue on this point?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If you isolate that quote, no.
However, Im getting more than one message. One side says the Church foundations are the Apostles (namely Peter) and the other says the church is based on Christ.
Hence the Catholic vs protestent thing.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Yes Jesus absolutely built the church and He is the spouse of the church. Peter's name was changed to Rock, and Jesus said Upon This Rock I build my church" in the same sentenceI think you missed my point.
The Church is built on Christ. Even the CCC says that. The sacraments are built on Christ. Everything is about Christ
NOT Peter
Peter is one of many Apostles (like presidents) who -key word- shaped the Church how it is today. The Church is not built on Peter just as the government is not built on little ol me just because my name means president. Its built on Christ.
The Church is not just the Apostles. Its an Apostolic tradition (tradition not cornerstone). Think of a building. The one who did the design was Christ. The Archetec was Peter. The Apostles "and" the body of Christ built the building.
We give honor to the Saints.
But Christians worship Christ.
Also, looking up an Encyclopedia is like asking a Hindu what the Eucharist means (pretending he knows nothing about the Church and christianity). I try to go to the source especially in regards to religion. In the World History Channel it talks about the Church coming from pagan traditions where the Church agknowledges its history but says opposite, their traditions are all from Christ.
Who should I believe about their own teaching? The Church or the History Channel.
Church is built on Christ (not Peter)
Apostles shaped the Church (Apostolic tradition)
Peter was the first Bishop but even he knows he isnt Christ.
What am I missing that even the Pope who wrote the CCC knows?
Why are some Catholics mixing up the foundation of their Church with who structured their Church?
Im at a loss.
So the point is Catholics have much biblical basis for why they believe what they believe . I was just saying the more important thing is that Peter was the head of the Apostles ,and he was the Bishop of Rome.
The second Bishop of Rome was Linus in 67 AD , and there has been an unbreakable chain of Popes, is one fact secular historians acknowledge.
So the bottom line is Catholics acknowledge that the church is the bride of Christ, and that Christ is the builder of the church.
Christ is the one we worship and our founder.
We have biblical basis for believing Jesus founded the church on Peter, but it doesn't really bother me if people wish to believe it was built on Jesus.
Since Jesus is the Builder we believe he built the Church on the Rock and it was a symbolic statement rather than he built the church on himself.
But yes the church is first and foremost supposed to be based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
Are you Scandinavian? I am as well and I found out through a Swedish victim of rape, torture, and murder that visited me in my cell in jail followed by many coincidences, and then I called my dad and found out I had Swedish in me.
No, Christian persecution of non Christians makes me ill. Christians try to say Im satanic because I believe people who have left their bodies behind on Earth to join God and the angels in heaven assist us. They tell me it's satanic but there's nothing in the Bible that says it is.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
Carlita, why do you continue to ask questions when you are closed minded to all the answers you are getting? Do you have some kind of hidden agenda just to attack the Catholic faith?
I don't see anybody on here attacking your faith.
I don't see anybody on here attacking your faith.
Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
Peter is Dwayne Johnson?
The Church is most certainly about Jesus--He is the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20), and the Church is His body (1 Corinthians 12). Without the cornerstone, the building falls apart.I think you missed my point.
The Church is built on Christ. Even the CCC says that. The sacraments are built on Christ. Everything is about Christ
NOT Peter
Peter is one of many Apostles (like presidents) who -key word- shaped the Church how it is today. The Church is not built on Peter just as the government is not built on little ol me just because my name means president. Its built on Christ.
The Church is not just the Apostles. Its an Apostolic tradition (tradition not cornerstone). Think of a building. The one who did the design was Christ. The Archetec was Peter. The Apostles "and" the body of Christ built the building.
We give honor to the Saints.
But Christians worship Christ.
Also, looking up an Encyclopedia is like asking a Hindu what the Eucharist means (pretending he knows nothing about the Church and christianity). I try to go to the source especially in regards to religion. In the World History Channel it talks about the Church coming from pagan traditions where the Church agknowledges its history but says opposite, their traditions are all from Christ.
Who should I believe about their own teaching? The Church or the History Channel.
Church is built on Christ (not Peter)
Apostles shaped the Church (Apostolic tradition)
Peter was the first Bishop but even he knows he isnt Christ.
What am I missing that even the Pope who wrote the CCC knows?
Why are some Catholics mixing up the foundation of their Church with who structured their Church?
Im at a loss.
And the Rock is most definitely either Peter, or his confession of faith in Jesus as being the Christ; before this event, Peter's name was Simon. Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter (the Greek word for "rock" or "little rock/rocky"). And upon this "rock", Jesus would build His Church.
Why do we say that Peter or his confession is the Rock? The entire message of the Church, the thing that guides everything we do, is "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God". Peter was the one to own that statement, and to defend it. And it is our job to do the same. Jesus prayed for Peter, that his strength may not fail, and when he had been strengthened, he was to turn and support his brothers. This is the job of the Pope and the bishops, to strengthen those who say that Jesus is the Christ, in order that we keep the faith and hold to what Jesus passed down to us, being continually guided by the Holy Spirit. The Faith is the foundation of the Church.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Shouldn't it be the opposite? Instead of Christ building the Church on Peter, the Apostolic Tradition to which Peter of many Popes shaped the Church from (structure not foundation) is built on the Rock (foundation): Christ.
Apples and Oranges?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Where did this come from?
Whats confusing is Catholics (like myself) believe that the Church is founded on Peter. I asked the priest about this (he didnt feel I was attacking him, thank gosh) and he said it was founded on Christ. Now, the CCC also says its founded on Christ.
However, some Catholics say it is founded on Peter. I read scripture well years ago and consulted the priest about it.
I read EVERYTHING on these threads if you believe it or not and if you follow the conversations you will notice no other Catholic feels Im attacking their faith. (Least their replies where respectful).
That and dont lump me in with Catholic-haters. I hate the Church politics not the Church sacraments and my spiritual growth in the Church.
If you read all of this with an active eye, also notice that I rephrase each persons reply so I better understand why they believe X when Im told Y.
Why is it important? To my wanting to learn and understand, I find learning different faiths give me a perspective of how my ancestors believed in their faith: they are christians.
If you think I am attacking you, you got the WRONG person. Online does no justice on peoples personalities.
Dont judge me.