psychoslice
Veteran Member
That's great, I just couldn't stand being with all those self righteous do gooders............but all jokes a side, I don't believe in a heaven what so ever, this is it right here and now, enjoy it while it last.
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As a Christian do you believe in an honest-to-god punishing Hell?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
psychoslice
Veteran Member
In case you didn't know, a drink or two is forbidden by many Christians, your god may seem loving to you, but at the end of the day, he is a evil, he only wants his own way, but I don't believe in a personal god so it doesn't bother me the least.
InChrist
Free4ever
Whether many Christians forbid a drink or two is irrelevant since Christians are not God and the scriptures do not forbid a drink or two. You are certainly free to choose not to believe in God, but it seems baseless and illogical to just decide the God you don't believe in is evil.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I have read the bible and it is full of evil by god, in fact god has killed far more than the so called Satan, this from the bible. I was a Christian for many years, so I do know what I am talking about, I have noticed over all those years that many project their emotions onto god, I think many people never grow up and become mature, and god is like a daddy that protects them, and also many are afraid of death, so daddy gives them life after death, I suppose its like having a pension waiting for you when you die, just like an old age pension.
Skwim
Veteran Member
And isn't this exactly the situation god set in motion? He created a world where every person on earth is under the shotgun of original sin, and to be saved from its consequences, hell, one has to let Jesus into their life. And your quite right, wouldn't it have been nice if there had been no need for a redeemer to come knocking? Of course it would, but that's not how god constructed the game. God purposely infused all of mankind with original sin because . . . . . because. . . . .he could I guess,
and then expects mankind to abandon his best tool for making sense of the world, reason, in favor of trading for the only Get-Out-Of-Jail card in the deck: surrendering oneself to Jesus no matter what cost. Short of this the wages of original sin has you by the short hairs. And for those who never get the message, or worse yet, hear if from an incompetent preacher and find it gibberish, prepare for a hot time in the old town tonight.Gotta tell you, anyone who treated their children in such a way would have them taken away, and be put in jail. So, I believe . . .
"Let me in."
"Why?"
"So I can save you."
"From what?"
"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!"
DoubtingNate
Member
It's a spiritual protection racket!
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
It would be and has been the way the churches in times past have pushed fire and damnation. I don't see being asleep forever as much of a thing to be dreaded. It would be more stress knowing you were going to die because you were stubborn then being dead itself - and take a lot less time too.
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I don't believe in tough luck, purgatory, or that the ignorant are simply bound for hell with no hope or left out of the loop to have salvation. I trust the goodness of God and if He desires that all should be saved as His word indicates, then I know that all have the opportunity and He will see to it. The Bible has several examples of people who were outside of the loop of Israel in the OT or hearing the gospel in the NT, yet they demonstrated faith toward God and He blessed them or provided more information. I believe if someone, anywhere is sincerely seeking to know God, He will in one way or another provide all that may be needed...bibles, teachers, missionaries, believing friends, tracts, etc. for them to hear about Christ and have the opportunity of salvation.[/QUOTE]
Please notice the definition of the lake of fire according to Rev. 20 vs 13,14.
Isn't the lake of fire defined as ' second death ' ?_______
Doesn't Satan end up in ' second death ' according to Rev. 21:8 ?_______
Death in Scripture is: ' sleep ' according to Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17;146:4; Daniel 12vs2,13 and John 11 vs 11-14
' Second death' would be eternal sleep, or the opposite of eternal life which is eternal death with No future hope.
As Psalm 92:7 mentions the wicked ( includes Satan ) will be destroyed forever ( annihilated ). Destroyed as in second death.
Doesn't Jesus destroy Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B ?_______
People (Never Satan and his angels ) are in hell. As dead Jesus was Not left in biblical hell (grave ), all the people in the Bible's hell will be ' delivered up ' out of hell according to Rev. 20 vs 13,14 before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
Right. The dead Jesus was Not left in hell. In other words, Jesus did Not remain in hell.
God delivered up, or resurrected the dead Jesus out of hell.- Acts 2 vs 27,31,32; 3:15
In order for God to resurrect Jesus out of hell then Jesus would first have to be in hell in order to be resurrected out of hell.
Whether one uses the English word hell, or the Greek hades/haides, or the Hebrew word Sheol all mean the stone-cold grave.
While in biblical hell Jesus was Not burning in flames, rather Jesus was sound asleep in the grave/hell.
Jesus taught sleep in death - John 11 vs 11-14
Jesus was well educated ( even by age 12 ) in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach: sleep in death.
References: Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 6:5;13:3; 115:17; 146:4 ; Daniel 12 vs 2,13
What Bible verse says Jesus was never in the Bible's hell ?______________________
There is a BIG difference in the temporary Bible's hell, and the religious-myth hell of a permanent burning forever.
The religious-myth hell has been taught as Scripture, but that's Not what the Bible really teaches about the Bible's hell.
Especially when the Jews mixed with the Greeks they adopted Greek theories and philosophies and began teaching them as being Scripture although Not found in Scripture. That does Not make the Bible's hell as wrong, but makes wrong teachings as wrong.
Whatever we put first in our lives is our God/god.
Some people look in the mirror and see their god.
False religious teachers often teach what is Not scriptural as being Scripture.
That was true even in Jesus' day - Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15:9 and Matthew chapter 23.
Yes, scare tactics ( forever burning ) were used and still used to control the flock of God - Acts 20 vs 29,30
False teachings, even though taught as Scripture, does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes those false teachers as wrong.
InChrist
Free4ever
I agree death in the scripture is sleep, but sleep for the body alone until the resurrection. The scriptures reveal that the soul of a person lives on after death in consciousness. I don't believe annihilation to be true because the Bible uses such terms as "shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2) and "torment . . . forever" (Rev. 14:11). Shame and torment are sufferings that are experienced by a conscious living being, not an annihilated corpse.
Jesus plainly spoke of eternal suffering...And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Matthew 25:46
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 20:10
Revelation states that it is not a vacant hell or only death and Hades, but anyone not found in the Book of Life that is cast into the lake of fire and this is the second death where torment occurs forever...
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev. 20:14-15
According to the scriptures and teaching of Paul the believer's SOUL does not go to the grave at death but remains conscious and goes to be with the Lord (Phi. 1:21-23; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; 1 Thess. 5:10). Only the BODY goes to the grave in sleep.
An unsaved man's body also goes to the grave at death, but his SOUL goes to a place of conscious torment (Luke. 16:22-23).
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes excuses, excuses........actually to really look into the mirror, beyond our self is to truly see God, not in someone's hearsay, or some old book.