Are you certain that God exists?

[Fade]

That's actually a good point, Fade. Many people who have committed suicide should have just thought about Christ beforehand, and it may have been different. There are circa 11 people in the Bible that committed suicide.

This brings up an interesting point though...what is wrong with suicide? Why shouldn't a person be allowed to join their maker if they want too? I mean, we're going to die anyway, and we are doomed to a life of sin no matter what so why not just bypass all the pain and suffering? If God is capable of forgiving sin if we repent, what's wrong with repenting just before you go splat?

 

[michel]

This brings up an interesting point though...what is wrong with suicide? Why shouldn't a person be allowed to join their maker if they want too? I mean, we're going to die anyway, and we are doomed to a life of sin no matter what so why not just bypass all the pain and suffering? If God is capable of forgiving sin if we repent, what's wrong with repenting just before you go splat?

Because suicide is a very grievous sin. God leaves us down here to be a witness to His Son's resurrection, and to bring others into the Kingdom of Heaven.

When you're born, God has a set date that you are to die - (Hebrews 9:27). However, by living an exceedingly sinful life, one can cut that date short - (Ecclesiastes 7:17), or by living a godly life, one can extend it.

The best time to go is to go on the date that God has appointed for you.

Case in point:

In 2 Kings 20, King Hezekiah's time to die came up. Isaiah told him he was about to die, and he requested more time. God extended his life by 15 years.

Hezekiah should never have done that, because 3 years later he sired one of Israel's worst kings ever --- King Manasseh.

Under King Manasseh, Israel reached the point of no return as far as the Diaspora was concerned - (2 Kings 24:3).

 

[Fade]

Where does it say that suicide is a grievous sin in the Bible?
That aside, how can I be a witness to his Son's resurrection if I wasn't there and there is no evidence for said resurrection?

In 2 Kings 20, King Hezekiah's time to die came up. Isaiah told him he was about to die, and he requested more time. God extended his life by 15 years.

Hezekiah should never have done that, because 3 years later he sired one of Israel's worst kings ever --- King Manasseh.

This makes no sense. You say Hezekiah should never have done that, yet it was God who extended his life. If God is infallible how can this have been a mistake?

 

[michel]

Where does it say that suicide is a grievous sin in the Bible?

What would YOU call rebellion against God's plan for your future?

That aside, how can I be a witness to his Son's resurrection if I wasn't there and there is no evidence for said resurrection?

You just do the talking, Jesus will do the rest - (Matthew 28:19-20)

This makes no sense. You say Hezekiah should never have done that, yet it was God who extended his life. If God is infallible how can this have been a mistake?

Did you read the verse I supplied? The mistake was made by Hezekiah, not God.

 

[Darkdale]

What would YOU call rebellion against God's plan for your future?

How do you know that God doesn't plan for us to kill ourselves?

 

[michel]

How do you know that God doesn't plan for us to kill ourselves?

We've got His 'marching orders' --- in writing.

 

[Fade]

What would YOU call rebellion against God's plan for your future?

Pretty normal human behaviour actually but anyway, since you place such store in what the bible says, please tell where the bible says that suicide is a grevious sin. [/quote]

You just do the talking, Jesus will do the rest - (Matthew 28:19-20)

What exactly is Jesus going to do? He hasn't lived up to any of his "promises" thus far.

Did you read the verse I supplied? The mistake was made by Hezekiah, not God.

I'm familiar with the verse, partly because it's one of the primary examples of errancy in the bible (in that it talks about reversing the sun which implies the author believed that the sun orbits the earth).
It is still God who chooses to extend Hezekiah's life therefore God is at fault.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We've got His 'marching orders' --- in writing.

<yawn> Repetition does not make the claim any less baseless or absurd. </yawn>

 

[Darkdale]

<yawn> Repetition does not make the claim any less baseless or absurd. </yawn>

I suppose there is nothing you can do when faith is confused with reason. Makes any meaningful debate impossible.

 

[Fade]

We've got His 'marching orders' --- in writing.

"Mein Kampf" has some interest "marching orders" why shouldn't I follow that instead of the Bible?

 

[michel]

"Mein Kampf" has some interest "marching orders" why shouldn't I follow that instead of the Bible?

Go right ahead if you think it's right. Just be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. Who's stopping you from at least trying???

 

[michel]

I suppose there is nothing you can do when faith is confused with reason. Makes any meaningful debate impossible.

Oh yes there is. If one thinks faith is confused with reason, it gives them plenty to not talk about. For instance, they can beg for 'evidence'. They can hold their slientists up in high esteem. They can impress people with logic. They can direct people to websites like a traffic cop. And, of course, they can ALWAYS tell us what the Bible shouldn't say.

There's plenty of nonsense to spout --- as long as you don't believe the Bible.

 

[Fade]

Go right ahead if you think it's right. Just be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. Who's stopping you from at least trying???

What consequences? You mean there would be consequences for killing the Jews?

 

[michel]

What consequences? You mean there would be consequences for killing the Jews?

Yeah --- bring up Mein Kampf then play dumb --- I love it.

 

[Fade]

Yeah --- bring up Mein Kampf then play dumb --- I love it.

Play dumb? Eh? I think you may benefit from using a dictionary and looking up 'Sarcasm'

Anyhoo, I'd say the bible is responsible for as much misery as 'Mein Kampf' so I'll repeat the question...Why should I follow the bible and not mein kampf?

 

[michel]

Play dumb? Eh? I think you may benefit from using a dictionary and looking up 'Sarcasm'

Anyhoo, I'd say the bible is responsible for as much misery as 'Mein Kampf' so I'll repeat the question...Why should I follow the bible and not mein kampf?

And I'll repeat my answer ... go right ahead. If you think Mein Kampf is just as authoritative as the Bible, what's holding you back? No spine on the book?

Okay, so you weren't playing dumb, I'll retract the statement.

If you think they're both books of misery, then go read Dr. Seuss or something and stop your bleeding about it.

 

[Fade]

And I'll repeat my answer ... go right ahead. If you think Mein Kampf is just as authoritative as the Bible, what's holding you back? No spine on the book?

Okay, so you weren't playing dumb, I'll retract the statement.

If you think they're both books of misery, then go read Dr. Seuss or something and stop your bleeding about it.

Unfortunately Dr. Suess doesn't have enough Death and Carnage for my tastes. I do like the good Doctors work but when I'm feeling particularly bloodthirsty I like to settle down with something a little more blood soaked. The Bible fits the bill quite well. Lets not pretend that the God of the Bible doesn't show remarkably similar ideas about racial purity to Adolf Hitler. He even commits Genocide and Infanticide on an alarming scale.

So... God, Adolf or The Cat in the Hat? Mmmm...tough choice.

 

[Darkdale]

Oh yes there is. If one thinks faith is confused with reason, it gives them plenty to not talk about. For instance, they can beg for 'evidence'. They can hold their slientists up in high esteem. They can impress people with logic. They can direct people to websites like a traffic cop. And, of course, they can ALWAYS tell us what the Bible shouldn't say.

There's plenty of nonsense to spout --- as long as you don't believe the Bible.

I'm sorry, but I find your attitude annoying. It's not surprising that people don't take you seriously, because you refuse to have an intellectual debate and you openly despise intellect and reason. You should have the courage to be secure in your own beliefs without mocking the beliefs of others. If you are going to present your faith as truth, be prepared for others to question it and then treat their questions with respect, knowing that they as well as you have their own experience and faith which, like you, they must operate from.

 

[Fascist Christ]

And I'll repeat my answer ... go right ahead. If you think Mein Kampf is just as authoritative as the Bible, what's holding you back? No spine on the book?

Okay, so you weren't playing dumb, I'll retract the statement.

If you think they're both books of misery, then go read Dr. Seuss or something and stop your bleeding about it.

Let's try a different example.

What makes the Bible more authoritive than the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Odyssey, the Talmud, the Tao-te-ching, or a Book of Shadows?

Telling him to follow Mein Kampf if he wants does not answer his question.

I do not understand how people can follow a book that I cannot even read to my kids.

 

[michel]

Unfortunately Dr. Suess doesn't have enough Death and Carnage for my tastes. I do like the good Doctors work but when I'm feeling particularly bloodthirsty I like to settle down with something a little more blood soaked. The Bible fits the bill quite well. Lets not pretend that the God of the Bible doesn't show remarkably similar ideas about racial purity to Adolf Hitler. He even commits Genocide and Infanticide on an alarming scale.

So... God, Adolf or The Cat in the Hat? Mmmm...tough choice.

FINALLY, we're getting somewhere!

I'm well-familiar with the so-called "anti-Semitism" you guys like to drum up in Scripture. I've debated that many times, and have even gone through John 8 verse-by-verse, so I'll just let that go with saying this: you're wrong.

And as far as the infanticide and genocide, I've covered that on this website somewhere.

But God has it well-covered in the Bible. You just have to read it.

God, Adolf, or the Cat in the Hat? Well, for some, it had better be the latter two.