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Are you certain that God exists?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Cynic, Aug 2, 2005.

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  1. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I'm sorry you have me at a loss; " As Jesus said, you will love one and hate the other" - would you tell me where that appears in the Bible?

    I hate to admit it, but I have never come across that, but I am a 'novice':eek:
     
  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Wow! You've really misapplied that verse!

    LUKE 16:13 = NO SERVANT CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS: FOR EITHER HE WILL HATE THE ONE, AND LOVE THE OTHER; OR ELSE HE WILL HOLD TO THE ONE, AND DESPISE THE OTHER. YE CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MAMMON.

    He said 'mammon' not 'common man'.

    You need to fine-tune your radio.
     
  3. Ahmadi

    Ahmadi Member

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    and you said it right.... you cannot call it a disorder because it is systematic. Revelations of the Quran are extremely accurate and flawless thus proving to me (at least) that it is from God and not from man. Other people who have so-called 'revelations' always have a flaw which is where you know that it is not from God. Other than that, when a man claims to have revelations or visions from God which are actually not from God, then he must have an ulterior motive.
     
  4. Ahmadi

    Ahmadi Member

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    That's a very awkward statement. I do have love for God and man at the same time. Take any major religion of the world. All of them have always done something to serve humanity while preaching about love of God.

    As far as intolerance and death are concerned, they always have nothing to do with the religion itself. Intolerance, hatred, death, and destruction are the work of man by manipulation of religion. It's very true to say that people lose thier ability to rationalize when they become emotional. These emotions can sometimes be misused by corrupt priests or Imams to do something very much against the teachings of the religion. In other wods, the 'name of God' is used as a scapegoat to "justify" actions. In fact, there is such a thing as 'bad religion'.
     
  5. Fascist Christ

    Fascist Christ Active Member

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    I did not claim that Jesus ever reffered to the common man. All I am saying is that his concept of "serving two masters" can be applied to love as well. The idea is not exclusive to god and mammon alone, as he used the analogy of masters and servants.

    This also gets into different ideas of what Jesus meant with the things he said. I will not trust a Christian's opinion on the matter, since they always begin with the bias that he was some sort of savior.

    Some might say that Mammon is the name of a deity of some kind. I would more accurately describe it as "the love of money." As for "serving god" what better service can we provide than to love one another with the same benign sentiment he has shown his creation?

    Thus, I read it as "You cannot love one another and money at the same time." The psychology behind the idea still stands, unless you believe in polyamory. You cannot direct your love in multiple directions and say that each recipient is getting the fullest amount. Jesus obviously understood this concept.

    You cannot love one another and an imaginary friend. You will love one and hate the other. Too often I see the so-called "god lovers" promoting intolerence to the point of rage and often even bloodshed. Meanwhile, the Atheists complain about the inhumanity of their actions. Those who are supposedly acting "in the name of god" are usually acting in accordance to some else's agenda. Hence, they are "serving" a "master" other than god.
     
  6. Fascist Christ

    Fascist Christ Active Member

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    I apoligize, I am not familiar with revelations in the quran. Care to point me to a good english translation online?

    By the way, I started a thread about prophecy and poetry, as I mentioned earlier, in the religious media section.
     
  7. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Oh don't feel sorry for me, they certainly didn't deny me my childhood. I was 12 so i think it was about time to let it go. :jiggy:
     
  8. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Not Christians per se, just illiterate hicks :D
    Though I do find the christian impulse to preach and judge based on their flawed moral code more than a little repulsive.
     
  9. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Michel, If I am correct, Mathew 6:24 No-one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will devote to one and despise the other, you cannot not serve God and wealth.. :)

    Jesus is just reminding us, our true treasure lies where our heart is, its either going to be focused on what the world has to offer, or on the Spiritual [as in store your treasures in heaven..] I don't see anything more implied..
     
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Thanks, Jackie, you were right.:)

    Fascist Christ;
    I said"there is no reason why the love cannot be directed both to the common man, and God (who, to me is not an imaginary friend)"

    To which you responded:"Yes there is. As Jesus said, you will love one and hate the other. You can only focus on one at a time, so you will always be ignoring one or the other. I personally do not see how one can encourage intolerence, hatred, death, and destruction in the name of god, but it happens. If we focus on loving one another, like Jesus taught us, only then can we know god's love - since then we will be reflecting it everywhere. To focus on god is to skip the most important step, without which the aforementioned atrocities are born."

    Matthew 6:24 reads"Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
    From:-http://cnview.com/bible_study/god_and_mammon.htm



    Mammon--3126 mamonas (mam-o-nas') or mammonas (mam-mo-nas'); of Aramaic origin; wealth, (worldy goods; assets; possessions; material goods; revenue; earnings.) avarice; (acquisitiveness; couvetousness; materialism) deified; valued; (honored; well-regarded; esteemed; cherished; prized_.
     
  11. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Absolutely.
    I can only answer for myself, obviously :cool:
    I see abundant evidence of God's existence every day. Even during the years and years I was trying to believe and educating myself to believe that there isn't a God, the evidence was there.
    That's fine. I'm OK with someone such as yourself believing that my beliefs are absurd :bonk:

    Now... on to read the rest of the replies :eek:
     
  12. Arkangel

    Arkangel I am Darth Vader

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    I have not been following this thread but the title interested me. Anyway I feel strongly about this. So here goes my argument.

    A wise person makes no effort to conceal a secret. But he does not make an effort to reveal the secret either. For example you do not talk about menstruation or about death to a five-year-old but as they grow older these are things are not hidden from them anymore. They become known as a mater of course.

    Cynic you need to grow up in your understanding of things around you. To understand God you must first understand yourself. Try to figure out why you are here and for what purpose is your life. Science explains things that we can understand with our current abilty to grasp things and just like a five-year-old there are lot of things we are yet to know. God, if he exists or does not exist is totally up to him. The same way the proof your existence is. Whether you exist or do not is up to you. There have been billions who have existed before us, but we can only prove the existence of a few. That does not mean the others did not exist. I can't even prove my great great grandfather existed other than the fact that I exist so he should have. Or else where did the sperm come from that made my grandfather. You go down the line you will come up to big bang. We now know that there was something even before big bang (something had to cause the big bang) and were did the energy that was released at big bang come from.

    I don't know whether that is God or not. But it is pretty close to being something powerful enough to create this universe. People call it God, some call it science, I just call it my imagination. For me the existence of God in not as important as my existence. I need to leave proof of my existence so that no one starts a thread "Whether I really exist."
     
  13. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    What do these examples have to do with God? Your examples are simply facts of life. There's plenty of evidence for them and so there is no mystery in them.

    How wonderfully patronising of you, but that aside, trying to figure out why we are here is exactly what asking questions like 'are you certain that God exists' is all about.

    That's right, you want people to know that you exist and so you leave proof, hopefully easily recognisable proof. Why can't God do the same? Why does it have to be such a mystery?
     
  14. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    LOL - the same could be said of most any one species.... the earth can still flourish if you remove all of any one species of insect, mammal, bird, reptile, dodo bird, human or whatever. That's a whole lot different than removing all the species of plants, birds, mammals, insects, reptiles, whatever.
     
  15. Arkangel

    Arkangel I am Darth Vader

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    My point is that you have phases in your understanding and the wise person is God in this context and not me.
     
  16. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    What a wonderful answer.
    Go jump off a cliff and you will know God. Why didn't I think of that before?
     
  17. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Yes there are.
    Besides the Qur'an...[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica, Swiss, Sans Serif]
    and....
    ...here's a link to some more non-biblical accounts of Jesus and the apostles.
    [/size][/size][/font]
     
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  18. Fade

    Fade The Great Master Bates

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    Haha! I love the contempt that tacitus lathers his writing in :D
     
  19. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Yeah, I noticed that too..... kind of like many of the writers of the posts on this forum :D
     
  20. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    That's actually a good point, Fade. Many people who have committed suicide should have just thought about Christ beforehand, and it may have been different. There are circa 11 people in the Bible that committed suicide.
     
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