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Are you certain that God exists?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Cynic, Aug 2, 2005.

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  1. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member

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    This originally came about in another thread, but I posted it in a new one to avoid digression.

    Are any of you theists certain that God is there? How can one be certain, when there is an incredible lack of evidense to support such certainty?

    To me, being certain that God exists wouldn't be any different than being certain that bigfoot, the lochness monster, and aliens exist, when in fact there is no evidence (except anecdotal evidence) to support such a certainty, it is just as absurd.
     
  2. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    The way I look at it, you can be certain and be wrong. It doesn't really matter if someone is certain about something or not.
     
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  3. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member

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    Really? I think it does. If someone is making extraordinary claims, yet they are not certain whether it is true, wouldn't you say that they are being dishonest? This is how fallacies and self deceptions begin, by not making a distinction between subjective and objective.
     
  4. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    question: are you certain God exists?

    answer: yes

    evidence: my heart

    i can give other evidences aswell, but primerily that is why

    i think that you need to have faith and believe in god before you can start proving him
     
  5. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    You will never be able to prove God to someone who doesn't believe in Him because it's *faith*. If we could prove God existed, there would be no need for faith.
     
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  6. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    While I cannot tell you how I know, I do know that He is there. I know that He knows me personally and is constantly aware of my needs. Maybe you could explain to me the lack of evidence you see that He exists. I'm just not aware of any. I feel as if I were born knowing that He is there. No matter how hard I might try, I can't convince myself that He isn't. The very fact that I exist is proof enough to me that He exists. I know that to a non-believer that is not a good answer. But it's the only one I have.
     
  7. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member

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    There is a lack of objective evidense, you know, tangible scientific stuff.

    Well in actuallity I do consider the possiblity of God's existence, I'm just not certain because of the lack of objective evidence. How can anyone be certain when there's nothing to support that certainty? Feelings are subjective, and proves nothing. Believing in something just because you feel it, or want to believe in it, does not lead to truth, but it often leads to fallacy and self deception. Feelings are not logical. I really don't think anybody can be certain.
     
  8. Dayv

    Dayv Member

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    Cynic has a good point. I myself believe in the possibility of a higher being (really more of an oversoul, though). The fact is that feelings are not logical or reliable. It is fine to believe in god and whatnot even with lack of evidence or real logic, but often it seems people are unwilling to even accept the possibility that they might be wrong, which leads me to believe that this belief in god is an unhealthy filler. Even though I believe in the goddess, I understand it is illogical and an unlikely scenario. I know the only reason I do believe is because I like to and it makes me feel comfortable.
     
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  9. ImABeliever

    ImABeliever New Member

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    If this is true then you do not believe.
    So everything that happens always has scientific evidence?
    Just because you do not trust your feelings don't tell everyone else not to trust theirs. My feelings on a lot of things have be proven right.
    Faith is believing in the unseen. We have faith in the wind, yet we don't see it.

    Now to the point. Does God exist? Yes

    Some Reasons: People talk of the fantastic order of the universe. Well doesn't order imply that someone or something is guiding it. Without guidance there is no order. Also think of the sheer odds that all things would come into existence without guidance. Most would say it is still possible. About as possible as me winning all the state lotteries at the same time with the same numbers. Possible but not very likely. Also what is it called when something miraculous happens? Some call it luck because they cannot explain it. I call it Divine intervention. Try and get science to prove luck.

    Is science always right? No

    Some Reasons: There has been many times in history when we just knew something was true, because it was scientifically proven. Then found out it wasn't true. Science is based on a series of hypothesis. The word means educated guess. A good guess but in the long run just a guess. Science has failed me, but God has not.

    So I have no choice but to believe in God. To believe purely in science, when it cannot explain a lot, is ludicrous.

    Also I want someone to show me some of the evidence that God does not exist. They keep telling me it is out there but I have never seen it.
     
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  10. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    Yea, really. It doesn't matter if you're certain that the moon is made of cheesepuffs. It either is or isn't. Being certain doesn't affect it one way or another.
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I believe that god and goddess exist. I have my reasons to think so.

    Thats one of the wondes of science. The spiritual world can neither be proven nor disproven.
     
  12. ch'ang

    ch'ang artist in training

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    Like Dayv hinted at in the end of his post I think the whole reason that people believe in god or a supernatural being is because they feel very uncomfortable if there wasn't one and so they convince themselves that their really is a god (because lets face it, an all powerful, all knowing guy who knows who you are and likes you and will give you a place of eternal peace if you believe in him is a pretty appealing idea.) only because it makes them feel better and no matter how much logic or science you throw at that belief they will never let it go because it gives their life meaning and purpose, so its worthless to try and get them to see the truth. And frankly the truth is not as hospitable a place and some people can't deal with it, so to me trying to get someone not to believe in god is like trying to harm them and I really don't like to harm people, so that is why I no longer have any ill feelings towards the Christian church, because it makes people lives better, like someone once said "Ignorance is bliss" Wow, how’s that for a run on sentence and off topic to boot!
     
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  13. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    It lies in the field of socio evolution. the beginnings of language, the compulation of myth, the extrapolation of child development.
     
  14. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Am I certain that God exists? Yes and no. I am certain that something lies beyond our realm of understanding in a spiritual world, if it is exactly how I percieve it to be one can never truly know for that is a personal thing to be interpreted by the individual.

    As for scientific proof there is plenty that there is a spirit realm. First off, there have been too many witnesses to too many occurences worldwide of ghost sightings, and other supernatural events that it is not possible that we have a worldwide conspiracy. Also, those who have never believed in such things have been a lot of the ones to come forward and admit that they saw or experienced something that they could not explain. Also, there have been photographs, NOT DOCTORED, that show things that are not there physically. If you do some research into the subject and really look at all the evidence and try not to just chalk EVERYTHING up to chance or man-made illusion (some of those things are just impossible to reproduce) then perhaps you might see the possibility that there may be something beyond our physical world. Now there has to be some reason for this phenomenon doesn't there? At this point one would have to wonder WHY. WHY is there this other state of existence? WHY do these things occur? WHY?

    It is these WHYs that lead some of us to the beliefs we have. We find the BECAUSE to these WHYs. The BECAUSE that makes the most sense to us to help us try to understand the WHYs. The BECAUSE that we are content with.
     
  15. KirbyFan101

    KirbyFan101 Resident Ball of Fluff

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    Ghosts are an urban legend. I personally have never seen any evidence (photograph, video) that was even remotely unexplainable. Ghosts are a perculiar shade of light under a tree, a door opened by the wind, a figment of a persons overworked imagination. A living testiment to the frailty of the human mind.

    Though, I am always open to convincing. :D
     
  16. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    So, the things that flew around my house(in FRONT of me) and moved around to different places did that on their own? When I and the rest of my family were all downstairs and no one was upstairs the heavy footsteps and noises like voices and thumping and yelling (which we could ALL hear, so not a figment of one person's imagination) that came from up there was what...my kitten who was sleeping on the steps? Or how about my cousin's wife, who never believed in ghosts or the supernatural in her life, who swore up and down that my grandmother came to visit her the morning she was in the hospital after giving birth to her second daughter when my grandmother had died 2 hours prior at home in her sleep? What about me SEEING figures in rooms with me...these are NOT things I WANT to see. Quite the contrary...they take me by surprise and often disturb me. Been seeing things since I was a teenager. Not drifty light or darkness either...but full apparitions...even down to the eyes.

    Believe what you want to, but if you ever have these things happen to you it may change your mind.
     
  17. KirbyFan101

    KirbyFan101 Resident Ball of Fluff

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    I have had many "supernatural experiences"

    -When I was 10 (or maybe 11, can't remember) I was visited by what "appeared" to be a Ghost. I was so afraid I actually wet my pants, and started screaming. My parents ran into the room, nothing was there.

    -When I was 13 after doing a nights homework, I fell asleep with my math book in front of me. When I woke up, I had the "holy bible" in front of me. My parents denied touching me, even after I had an absolute panic attack at them.

    -When I was 15 in Tasmania on vacation, I was lying in my hotel bedroom when something pushed against the other side of my pillow. I jumped up and ran right out of the room. I slept on the floor of my parents room that night.

    -Tasmania again, my mother started screaming that there was a man with a pitchfork outside our Winnabego (spelling). We ran outside, and, being on a flat , open plane, saw no-one.

    -Tasmania again, in the middle of nowhere, we heard something going through our rubbish outside our Winnabego (spelling, lmao). We all thought it was an animal, and this thing was thrasing the bin around and everything (or so the noise seemed). When we woke up the next morning, the bin was perfect.

    - 16, in my room. I heard something calling my name (a little girls voice). I heard it for at least 10 seconds, and then I jumped up and turned the light on. nothing there. I kept the radio on and went to sleep, not knowing if the voice had returned.

    -16 A month later. my mother woke up screaming that there was a little girl in her room. I instantly drew a connection, but never told my parents.

    -17 My new room. Things in my room constantly move around and shift. For example, I will leave my pile of clothing on the floor. Shirt on the bottom (I always take that off first) and pants on top. Wake up, its changed. The order of books on my bookshelf sometimes changes (an english book in a chemistry spot) even though I am so sure I didn't do that.

    The conclusion? There is none. Wierd **** happens, but ghosts are the absolute last answer to resort to. I am 100% that there are logical explanations for each and every one of those incidents.

    Please, do not presume to know aything about my life. :biglaugh:

    ps: never visit Tasmania :bonk:
     
  18. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    You would think that with all that you might believe in something along those lines instead of closing yourself off to it...which seemed to want to contact you.

    If you can think of a rational explanation for my upstairs haunting stuff then please enlighten me. As well as SEEING objects fly past my face that no one touched or disturbed and no breeze...we're talking heavy objects...statues, plates, tools, things like that that would just move off a table or whereever they were and fly across the room into the couch or on the floor several feet away. Please tell me how those things happened then.
     
  19. KirbyFan101

    KirbyFan101 Resident Ball of Fluff

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    I'm not here to judge you, and really, I have no desire to do so. Each to their own and their beliefs...

    Yes, I have contemplated believing. But, I don't trust my own mind.

    Possible explanations: tiredness, paranoia, darkness, reflections, illusions, intoxication (even unknowning), medication, twisting of facts (chinese whispers type memory), someone screwing you, screwing with yourself, desire to believe, possible mental condition/s.

    Endless possibilies. Why people jump to the most unplausable conclusion is beyond me.
     
  20. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    With all the possibilities you have given...to me...the supernatural IS the most PLAUSIBLE conclusion.

    But as you said...to each their own.
     
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