Are you certain that God exists?

[KirbyFan101]

Won't let me edit.

I just wanted to add:

Perhaps the greatest reason for my disbelief is those "magic revealed" shows. I remember watching some of the tricks and thinking "omfg there is NO way that isnt real magic". And then I saw the explanation, and realised how stupid I was. It is easy to ignore possibilities, folks. This is the same as the supernatural. Thinking "theres no way that wasn't the supernatural". Sadly, there was/is/always will be.

"Greatest Magic Tricks Revealed" shows, watch one, you will be amazed.

 

[Draka]

Won't let me edit.

I just wanted to add:

Perhaps the greatest reason for my disbelief is those "magic revealed" shows. I remember watching some of the tricks and thinking "omfg there is NO way that isnt real magic". And then I saw the explanation, and realised how stupid I was. It is easy to ignore possibilities, folks. This is the same as the supernatural. Thinking "theres no way that wasn't the supernatural". Sadly, there was/is/always will be.

"Greatest Magic Tricks Revealed" shows, watch one, you will be amazed.

I have. That is not what true magic is anyway. So it doesn't really amaze me. True magic comes from within and nature.

 

[KirbyFan101]

With all the possibilities you have given...to me...the supernatural IS the most PLAUSIBLE conclusion.

But as you said...to each their own.

http://www.skepdic.com/dvinefal.html

 

[Draka]

http://www.skepdic.com/dvinefal.html

Okay, I do NOT chalk up everything to "God" or "aliens". And you have presumed too much there. I am one of the most logical and analytical people you will probably ever meet. Science can explain the great majority of a lot of things. I can dissect things scientifically with the best of them Kirby. I just happen to have an open mind when it somes to certain things and try to keep that open mind in regards to the spiritual matters at hand. If you can't have that open mind then that is fine for you, but please do not try to lump me into a category of those who cannot come up with any other explanation for things than to say "God did it" or "it is aliens doing this". You are so wrong.

 

[KirbyFan101]

I provided:

Another variation of the fallacy goes something like this: I can't figure this out, so paranormal forces must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, paranormal forces did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, paranormal forces did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, paranormal forces are behind it.

You said:

Okay, I do NOT chalk up everything to "God" or "aliens". And you have presumed too much there. I am one of the most logical and analytical people you will probably ever meet. Science can explain the great majority of a lot of things. I can dissect things scientifically with the best of them Kirby. I just happen to have an open mind when it somes to certain things and try to keep that open mind in regards to the spiritual matters at hand. If you can't have that open mind then that is fine for you, but please do not try to lump me into a category of those who cannot come up with any other explanation for things than to say "God did it" or "it is aliens doing this". You are so wrong.

I am confused.

 

[Draka]

I provided:


You said:


I am confused.

What is there to be confused about? I took that to basically mean that you think that I can come up with no BETTER explanation than the supernatural. I dissect things and look for a logical explanation for things Kirby, I do, but I also KNOW when things are real or not okay?

Just because you cannot fathom a supernatural existence of anything but what you can touch or see with your own eyes does not mean that these things aren't real. It just means that you do not have the capability of accepting them. Not EVERYONE that believes the way I do are nuts and can't figure things out.

 

[KirbyFan101]

What is there to be confused about? I took that to basically mean that you think that I can come up with no BETTER explanation than the supernatural.

Can you?

I dissect things and look for a logical explanation for things Kirby, I do, but I also KNOW when things are real or not okay?

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-01/ghost.html

I would suggest that you read this. If for nothing else, for a greater understanding of how people react when put in my (and your, so it seems) position.:bounce

Just because you cannot fathom a supernatural existence of anything but what you can touch or see with your own eyes does not mean that these things aren't real.

Just because you cannot fathom a tangible existance of everything in which all can be touched, seen, or otherwise detected, does not mean that that is not the world that we are in. :162:

It just means that you do not have the capability of accepting them. Not EVERYONE that believes the way I do are nuts and can't figure things out.

Nuts, no. Guilty of The Divine Fallacy, yes. I cannot see how you differentiate yourself from people who explain crop circles with UFO's, when you explain objects moving through poltergiests/paranormal phonomenon.

 

[michel]

Hi ImABeliever,

As I notice that this is your first post, I thought I would welcome you to the forum.

You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you ought to see.


Perhaps you might liketo post on: Are you new to ReligiousForums.com? , to introduce yourself to the Members.

I hope you enjoy your time here.

On a personal note, I am delighted to see someone who believes that science doesn't explain all - looking forward to seeing your posts.

 

[Draka]

Can you?

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-01/ghost.html

I would suggest that you read this. If for nothing else, for a greater understanding of how people react when put in my (and your, so it seems) position.

:biglaugh: If you knew my main area of study in college you would know why I am so amused by this.

Just because you cannot fathom a tangible existance of everything in which all can be touched, seen, or otherwise detected, does not mean that that is not the world that we are in. :162:

I can fathom it...I just know it isn't true.

Nuts, no. Guilty of The Divine Fallacy, yes. I cannot see how you differentiate yourself from people who explain crop circles with UFO's, when you explain objects moving through poltergiests/paranormal phonomenon.

I am still awaiting you explanation of the things I described in my old house. Keep in mind that everyone in my house experienced and witnessed the same things...whether together or apart. And I met the man that resided in that house after me and once he found out I once lived there he started telling me all this stuff he had happen in that house...the SAME stuff! So is EVERYONE that walks in that house guilty of "The Divine Fallacy"??? Or is it just possible I am not?

I patiently await your explanations.

 

[KirbyFan101]

:biglaugh: If you knew my main area of study in college you would know why I am so amused by this.

lol tell me...?

I can fathom it...I just know it isn't true.

How did you come to such a conclusion?

I am still awaiting you explanation of the things I described in my old house. Keep in mind that everyone in my house experienced and witnessed the same things...whether together or apart. And I met the man that resided in that house after me and once he found out I once lived there he started telling me all this stuff he had happen in that house...the SAME stuff! So is EVERYONE that walks in that house guilty of "The Divine Fallacy"??? Or is it just possible I am not?

I patiently await your explanations.

I am not offering answers, Draka, I know very little to nothing about the situation other than "stuff moved". What I am offering, is the possibility of answers which are far more rational than some ghost screwing with you for no reason.

And yes, everyone is Guilty of the Divine Fallacy. Every skeptic report of Ghosts in the most haunted places in the world has always had some very plausable explanation: such as architecture and lighting.

500 years ago, you might have been one of the people claiming disease was an act of the supernatural.

500 years ago, I might not has known anything about virus's, but I would have been wise enough to know that there had to be another, scientific explanation.

 

[Draka]

lol tell me...?


How did you come to such a conclusion?


I am not offering answers, Draka, I know very little to nothing about the situation other than "stuff moved". What I am offering, is the possibility of answers which are far more rational than some ghost screwing with you for no reason.

And yes, everyone is Guilty of the Divine Fallacy. Every skeptic report of Ghosts in the most haunted places in the world has always had some very plausable explanation: such as architecture and lighting.

500 years ago, you might have been one of the people claiming disease was an act of the supernatural.

500 years ago, I might not has known anything about virus's, but I would have been wise enough to know that there had to be another, scientific explanation.

Oh, I get it now...I'm stupid and gullible and you're smart and savvy..ok, at least I know where we stand huh? :biglaugh:

 

[KirbyFan101]

Oh, I get it now...I'm stupid and gullible and you're smart and savvy..ok, at least I know where we stand huh? :biglaugh:

Yes, thankyou for that injection of sarcasm.

"We" stand nowhere different from when this thread began, as far as I am concerned.

 

[turk179]

500 years ago, you might have been one of the people claiming disease was an act of the supernatural.

500 years ago, I might not has known anything about virus's, but I would have been wise enough to know that there had to be another, scientific explanation.

In present time, if something unexplainable happens and you were to say that it was just a disgruntled spirit, most people would look at you as if you were nuts.

500 years ago, if you would have been wise enough to know that there was a scientific explanation for viruses, most people would have looked at you like you were nuts.

You never know. Some day science may be able to prove spirits exist. Personally I hope so because I want those people to stop looking at me like I am nuts.:biglaugh: I have a few stories myself that I wont bore you with because I know people can come up with any "logical" explanation if they work hard enough at it.

 

[Draka]

Yes, thankyou for that injection of sarcasm.

"We" stand nowhere different from when this thread began, as far as I am concerned.

ahh...sarcasm...my way of life :biglaugh: you just have to know my sense of humor at times Kirby. I actually am laughing you know!

 

[Draka]

Kirby, read your PM if it made it to you and come join me in chat if you like.

 

[Melody]

Like Dayv hinted at in the end of his post I think the whole reason that people believe in god or a supernatural being is because they feel very uncomfortable if there wasn't one and so they convince themselves that their really is a god (because lets face it, an all powerful, all knowing guy who knows who you are and likes you and will give you a place of eternal peace if you believe in him is a pretty appealing idea.) only because it makes them feel better and no matter how much logic or science you throw at that belief they will never let it go because it gives their life meaning and purpose, so its worthless to try and get them to see the truth.

I don't try to tell others why they believe what they do because I would just be guessing...and my guess would have far more to do with my own feelings and beliefs than any truth about why others believe what they do.

 

[michel]

This originally came about in another thread, but I posted it in a new one to avoid digression.

Are any of you theists certain that God is there? How can one be certain, when there is an incredible lack of evidense to support such certainty?

To me, being certain that God exists wouldn't be any different than being certain that bigfoot, the lochness monster, and aliens exist, when in fact there is no evidence (except anecdotal evidence) to support such a certainty, it is just as absurd.

Yes.

'Absurd' is the word you choose to use - the reason for my belief in God is most certainly not 'absurd' to me - think what you will.

 

[Kowalski]

This originally came about in another thread, but I posted it in a new one to avoid digression.

Are any of you theists certain that God is there? How can one be certain, when there is an incredible lack of evidense to support such certainty?

To me, being certain that God exists wouldn't be any different than being certain that bigfoot, the lochness monster, and aliens exist, when in fact there is no evidence (except anecdotal evidence) to support such a certainty, it is just as absurd.

It's unprovable in my opinion, which is why I often have an isue with Faiths which presuppose facts. Say, for instance, that Jesus really did live and die in Isreal, OK, that does not prove that any of the myths, ie virgin birth, death, resurrection are true. On the face of it, they sound like the myths they most likely are.

Cheers

K

 

[Ryan2065]

I am still awaiting you explanation of the things I described in my old house.

You ask us to do the impossible. One of my good friends one day was sitting in her room and she looked over at her couch and there sitting on the couch was a person she had never seen before. This completely freaked her out because not only was he sitting there, but he was also pretty transparent. She went and turned on the light and poof, he was gone. She went and got two of her friends and brought them into the room and turned off the light. Sure enough this "ghost" re-appeared and both of her friends saw it and were freaked out. In fact one of her friends refused to go back into the room. Now she went and got her boyfriend and had him look at this ghost (a quite reasonable man who didn't believe in them). He looked at the ghost and then decided to sit next to it. As he moved over to the couch the ghost disappeared and re-appeared. He moved the pillow around and the ghost went away, then came back. Yes, the ghost was just the sun hitting the pillow the right way apparently. The reason I bring this story up is because if her boyfriend did not find this out and was here argueing for spirits on this forum she would say "Please try to disprove the time when I actually saw a ghost and so did my friends!" It is quite impossible for someone to do this based on the fact that they do not know about the pillow.

Besides that... I have my moments when it comes to believe in god or not believing in god. Some days I think that there is no way that everything could happen randomly, and then other days I think theres no way that there is a spirit or god or anything of the sort.

**Edit** Oh yea, I forgot a very important part of my story. When my friend was telling me this, she was repeating it as if she could see a ghost man sitting there... When her boyfriend tells the story he says there was just a big white blob sitting there. Leads me to believe sometimes people see what they want to see. =)

 

[michel]

Ryan, I see a theist in you, dying to get out!!!!