Are we created by chance?

[Irfan]

The protein molecule is a very important structure of the living cell -Very important part in the living structure of the cell. The protein molecule consists of five elements - the Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur. And there are tens and thousands of Atoms required to make one Molecule. One Atom has five elements - Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur. There are tens of thousands of Atoms, which make one Protein Molecule - And there are approximately 92 free elements. The chances that out of these 92, the five will form an Atom… and these atoms will form tens and thousands of Atom, to form one Protein Molecule was calculated by Frank Alien . And he said… ‘the chances are 1/10 raised to 160’. You know what is the meaning of 1/10 raised to 160? If I say 1/10 raised to two, ten raise to two means, one zero zero zero. One in hundred - Chance is one percent. If I say 1/10 raised to three, it means one in a thousand – That is 1 percent. If I say 1/10 raise to four it means one in ten thousand - Means point 0.01%. So when the calculation was made, (1/10) raised to 160. It means point zero zero zero zero zero hundred and fifty seven zeros, then one. And mathematics tells, ‘anything 1/10 raised to fifty, is counted as zero’. Further more, this is talking about one molecule. And the substance required to form this one molecule of protein was calculated by another person Charles Guy - that it will require millions of times of substance as huge as our Galaxy. Millions of galaxies will be required to form this one molecule of protein. And the time was calculated by Charles Guy - the time taken for one protein molecule to be formed, will be ten raised to 263 years. You know what is that? One zero zero zero zero zero zero, 263 zeros, it will take to form one protein molecule. And do you know there are how many protein molecule in one cell ? And do you know how many other molecules are there in the cell ? And how many cells are there in the human being ? There are more than six billion molecules when a child is born. That is what doctors tell us today, six billion. One protein molecule takes 1/10 raise to 160 chances. Time taken is ten raise to two hundred and forty three years. To take six billion for one baby imagine. And how many women are pregnant ? There are millions of women pregnant at a time - And it takes only 9 months. ‘The chances’… Science tells us, ‘is zero zero zero, no chance at all’. These things cannot take by chance - they have to be programmed by Someone. Science tells us‘There has to be Someone , some Supernatural force’. Therefore science is not eliminating God’ - It is eliminating models of god.

That is why Quran poses a question to all of us in Surah Tur, Ch. No. 52, V.No. 35, that… ‘Were you created from nothing?’ and also provides the answer in Surah Muminun, Ch. No. 23, V. No. 14, that… ‘Allah is the best to create’.
from a lecture by Dr. Zakir Naik

 

[Katzpur]

I don't believe we were created by chance or from nothing. I believe we were created, first of all, as spirit beings from the light of truth that was co-eternal with God, and then created as physical beings by our parents.

 

[KingNothing]

Those odds are combinations and permutations. i.e. they're saying something like "the odds of taking these exact 5 balls out of a bag of 92 balls is such and such". They have nothing to do with reasons why those 5 balls, or atoms, or molecules, would be chosen or combined.

I guess a bad analogy would be if you had 500 pieces of clothing, including one rain coat. I wouldn't say the chances of you wearing the rain coat today are 1/500 if you had a reason for wearing that rain coat, like rain!

I'm tired and I articulated that poorly. I hope what I'm trying to say is clear.

 

[Irfan]

Those odds are combinations and permutations. i.e. they're saying something like "the odds of taking these exact 5 balls out of a bag of 92 balls is such and such". They have nothing to do with reasons why those 5 balls, or atoms, or molecules, would be chosen or combined.

I guess a bad analogy would be if you had 500 pieces of clothing, including one rain coat. I wouldn't say the chances of you wearing the rain coat today are 1/500 if you had a reason for wearing that rain coat, like rain!

I'm tired and I articulated that poorly. I hope what I'm trying to say is clear.

I totally agree with you.
This theory of probability is used to negate the view that we are created by chance. There are some people who say that we are merely created by chance. If we are only created by chance then the theory of probability is best to negate the view that we are created by chance. Because it shows that there is no way we that our creation is by fluke.Only by chance we cant be created.
If there are reasons for our creation then there is someone who has provided those reasons and that someone is God. I hope I have cleared myself.

 

[Bishka]

From my point-of-view and my own opinion, I hardly think we were created by chance.

 

[Ryan2065]

There are tens of thousands of Atoms, which make one Protein Molecule - And there are approximately 92 free elements. The chances that out of these 92, the five will form an Atom… and these atoms will form tens and thousands of Atom, to form one Protein Molecule was calculated by Frank Alien . And he said… ‘the chances are 1/10 raised to 160’. You know what is the meaning of 1/10 raised to 160? If I say 1/10 raised to two, ten raise to two means, one zero zero zero. One in hundred - Chance is one percent. If I say 1/10 raised to three, it means one in a thousand – That is 1 percent. If I say 1/10 raise to four it means one in ten thousand - Means point 0.01%. So when the calculation was made, (1/10) raised to 160. It means point zero zero zero zero zero hundred and fifty seven zeros, then one.

I would like to see his work... Basically the work that accounts for the environment (in order to calculate % you need to know how much of each element is present) and accounts for the probability two atoms will bind (some won't bind to each other... etc etc). The probably these 5 elements will bond and eventually form a protein molecule in a mixture that ONLY has these 5 elements I bet is pretty near 100%... So where's the calculations with history to back it up?

And mathematics tells, ‘anything 1/10 raised to fifty, is counted as zero’.

Any mathematician who tells you that is lieing to you or is not a real mathematician. I have a bachelors in math and am probably going to go on to grad school to get a phd in math and I can say positively that mathematicians NEVER round if at all possible.

Further more, this is talking about one molecule. And the substance required to form this one molecule of protein was calculated by another person Charles Guy - that it will require millions of times of substance as huge as our Galaxy. Millions of galaxies will be required to form this one molecule of protein.

This does not make sense... The only things required to form the protein are the elements...

And the time was calculated by Charles Guy - the time taken for one protein molecule to be formed, will be ten raised to 263 years. You know what is that? One zero zero zero zero zero zero, 263 zeros, it will take to form one protein molecule

Using what numbers? How exactly does this "Charles Guy" know what proportion of elements there were back at the big bang?

One protein molecule takes 1/10 raise to 160 chances.

Oh, so you are saying the chances of 1 protein molecule forming in the human body is 1/(10^160) ?? Now I know you are joking! That means that 1 in every 10^160 humans has a protein molecule in his or her body.

Time taken is ten raise to two hundred and forty three years. To take six billion for one baby imagine. And how many women are pregnant ? There are millions of women pregnant at a time - And it takes only 9 months. ‘The chances’… Science tells us, ‘is zero zero zero, no chance at all’. These things cannot take by chance - they have to be programmed by Someone. Science tells us… ‘There has to be Someone , some Supernatural force’. Therefore science is not eliminating God’ - It is eliminating models of god.

I'll just group the rest of your statements here... No respectible scientist would ever say anything that you just posted. I was assuming that you meant from the beginning of time to the present... but apparently you think it takes galaxies to make 1 protein molecule TODAY. Maybe some religious people believe this and thats their right... But these numbers were not gotten to scientifically and science does not tell ANYONE that a very small number equals 0... A very small number equals a very small number.

 

[Yerda]

The protein molecule is a very important structure of the living cell -Very important part in the living structure of the cell.

So important it had to be said twice...

The protein molecule consists of five elements - the Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur.

Sometimes less, sometimes more. Only a couple of amino acids contain sulphur, and some proteins have prosthetic groups, like haem (in haemoglobin) has an iron, and some enzymes have zincs.

One Atom has five elements - Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur.

Any high school chemistry student could tell that this is silly. Perhaps one molecule?

Bugger it...I don't have the patience to correct every mistake.

Short answer is that it was not chance. The laws of chemistry and physics dictate how things will react. The things that exist i.e. matter are in their current form because they tend towards stability. In chemical terms proteins are stable forms of matter. It's no accident.

The chance argument is inherently flawed since it overlooks the fact that proteins do form. Cells are chemical factories for making proteins, and they cannot perform energetically unfavourable reactions. Enzymes (which are themselves proteins) can't force a reaction to happen if it could not already go. They just speed things up to a degree suitable for living systems.

 

[YmirGF]

One Atom has five elements - Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur.
from a lecture by Dr. Zakir Naik

I think Dr. Zakir Naik is a tiny bit off on this description. Atoms are not composed of different elements. Atoms are the smallest single aspect of a given element, which in turn are composed of various sub-atomic particles.

For example:

A carbon atom - atomic #6
a nitrogen atom - atomic #7
an oxygen atom - atomic #8
a hydrogen atom - atomic #1
a sulphur atom - atomic #16

Sorry to trouble you with these annoying details. Is the good doctor by chance a veterinarian? But... carry on, it does make for amusing reading.

 

[Ozzie]

The protein molecule is a very important structure of the living cell -Very important part in the living structure of the cell. The protein molecule consists of five elements - the Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur. And there are tens and thousands of Atoms required to make one Molecule. One Atom has five elements - Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen and Sulphur. There are tens of thousands of Atoms, which make one Protein Molecule - And there are approximately 92 free elements. The chances that out of these 92, the five will form an Atom… and these atoms will form tens and thousands of Atom, to form one Protein Molecule was calculated by Frank Alien . And he said… ‘the chances are 1/10 raised to 160’. You know what is the meaning of 1/10 raised to 160? If I say 1/10 raised to two, ten raise to two means, one zero zero zero. One in hundred - Chance is one percent. If I say 1/10 raised to three, it means one in a thousand – That is 1 percent. If I say 1/10 raise to four it means one in ten thousand - Means point 0.01%. So when the calculation was made, (1/10) raised to 160. It means point zero zero zero zero zero hundred and fifty seven zeros, then one. And mathematics tells, ‘anything 1/10 raised to fifty, is counted as zero’. Further more, this is talking about one molecule. And the substance required to form this one molecule of protein was calculated by another person Charles Guy - that it will require millions of times of substance as huge as our Galaxy. Millions of galaxies will be required to form this one molecule of protein. And the time was calculated by Charles Guy - the time taken for one protein molecule to be formed, will be ten raised to 263 years. You know what is that? One zero zero zero zero zero zero, 263 zeros, it will take to form one protein molecule. And do you know there are how many protein molecule in one cell ? And do you know how many other molecules are there in the cell ? And how many cells are there in the human being ? There are more than six billion molecules when a child is born. That is what doctors tell us today, six billion. One protein molecule takes 1/10 raise to 160 chances. Time taken is ten raise to two hundred and forty three years. To take six billion for one baby imagine. And how many women are pregnant ? There are millions of women pregnant at a time - And it takes only 9 months. ‘The chances’… Science tells us, ‘is zero zero zero, no chance at all’. These things cannot take by chance - they have to be programmed by Someone. Science tells us… ‘There has to be Someone , some Supernatural force’. Therefore science is not eliminating God’ - It is eliminating models of god.

Quran poses a question to all of us Surah Tur, Ch. No. 52, V.No. 35, that… ‘Were you created from nothing?’ and then it gives the answer in Surah Muminun, Ch. No. 23, V. No. 14, that… ‘Allah is the best to create’.
from a lecture by Dr. Zakir Naik

The title of the thread is a contradiction. So the answer is no.

 

[Willamena]

"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing."

 

[KingNothing]

Actually I was trying to address the fact that those odds address the chances of life once the Universe has been created, and I believe they're wrong and shouldn't be used.

I was also hinting at evolutionary reasons. Once (and if) the Universe was created I believe the chances for life are much higher than what you described above, without God's involvement. In fact I believe there is intelligent life elsewhere. Probably even civilizations more advanced than ours. Most physicists share my beliefs.

However, if you want to say there must be a God to set up this universe in the first place then that's fine. Half of the agnostic in me agrees.

 

[doppelganger]

"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Indeed. It is better to be ignorant than ignorant and misinformed.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Indeed. It is better to be ignorant than ignorant and misinformed.

And unable to interact critically with whatever info one has.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Internet and caffiene has produced some interesting results on RF.

 

[michel]

Science tells us… ‘There has to be Someone , some Supernatural force’. Therefore science is not eliminating God’ - It is eliminating models of god.

Can you provide the quote from the scientist/s that said that ?

 

[Faint]

Science tells us… ‘There has to be Someone , some Supernatural force’.

I must have missed that lesson in science class. It was probably the one right before "Chemical compositions of the Tooth Fairy" and "Geocentrism". Damn. I shouldn't have ditched so much.

 

[Quiddity]

That scientist may in fact said that, just not in class. There are in fact well standing theistic scientist.

 

[Ryan2065]

That scientist may in fact said that, just not in class. There are in fact well standing theistic scientist.

If any of them say "A small number should be rounded to 0 in math and physics" then they are, in fact, 'quacks'... To use my dads technical term.

 

[doppelganger]

There are in fact well standing theistic scientist.

There are also many rugby-playing medical doctors in good standing.

 

[KingNothing]

The OP is evidence that physics exists, not that God does.

All it says is that there are laws to our universe. It's going out of its way to state something we already know. i.e. it's saying there's a reason atoms come together, it's not accident. Yeah, those reason's are called strong and weak nuclear, gravitational, and electromagnetic forces. It provides nothing concrete about a God needed to set up those forces.