Are there Reasonable Moral Grounds to Oppose Open Relationships and Marriages?

[Drolefille]

I don't think that good relationships are built on the idea of being fullfilled by someone else, becoming fullfilled wthiin one's self, and then bringingthat to share with someone else as a benefit to them. Along the way we find ourselves reaping the benefits they want to bring to us. I think an open relaionship where you date only others who also want an open relationship is limiting your choice of prospective partners to a point that will reduce the qualities to chose from in another person that are importand to you. This seems to be a set up for failure and lonliness.

Dating only people of the opposite sex cuts your dating partners in half though right? Should everyone be bisexual/pansexual?

This doesn't make logical sense to me as people who are in open relationships have quite obviously found other people who are into being in open relationships. Facebook has it as an option as a relationship status for example. If gay and lesbian people make up ~10% of the population and manage to date each other, I think people in open relationships are going to do ok.

I also see problems with jealousy, family, social occaisons, confusion in the children, and sexual confusion for adolescents raised with parents of open relationship.

Jealousy - If it's a problem that can't be dealt with fairly easily, one shouldn't be in an open relationship. Or one should only be in an open relationship where the rules will preclude any situations of jealousy.
Family - Family doesn't have to know, or they can and they'll deal with it or not as needed. Interracial dating might cause problems with family too, but that's not a good argument for segregation.
Social occasions: A person can bring a primary partner, or no partner or both partners (or what have you) depending on the occasion. Same-sex couples can be 'awkward' in social occasions, but if you're proud of your relationship you deal with it. If you have to hide it, you do.
Confusion in children: Children are generally confused about how grown-up things work, and then they learn. What one teaches one's kids generally reflects one's values. Children may or may not be aware of their parents' relationship depending on the form it takes.
Sexual confusion for adolescents: I don't understand why?

 

[Averroes]

I don't think that good relationships are built on the idea of being fullfilled by someone else, becoming fullfilled wthiin one's self, and then bringingthat to share with someone else as a benefit to them. Along the way we find ourselves reaping the benefits they want to bring to us. I think an open relaionship where you date only others who also want an open relationship is limiting your choice of prospective partners to a point that will reduce the qualities to chose from in another person that are importand to you. This seems to be a set up for failure and lonliness. I also see problems with jealousy, family, social occaisons, confusion in the children, and sexual confusion for adolescents raised with parents of open relationship.

I agree with part of your comment.

At least with my surroundings most people favor monogamous relationships (even though some that favor it, also favor cheating on the side). Besides, in open relationships the lines of cheating are blurred. For instance, emotional and mental deception in a consensual open relationship. What if I become attached to the woman (other than my primary partner) I am involved with but I don't reveal my feelings?

How can love be split among different partners without the risk of having more feelings for those other than your partner?


And finally from my own experience women do not prefer open relationships.....A good 99.9999%

I used to be with this chick who had a boyfriend and they were in a so-called "open relationship" cause he did his thing and she did hers but they always came back home together. But our situation was purely sexual. Not trying to be graphic but since I was way more well endowed than her partner majority of her outings were with me. Actually she was kind of clingy which is why I broke it off and told her to go back home and just only be with her man cause she isn't emotionally ready to be with other people.

 

[Drolefille]

I agree with part of your comment.

At least with my surroundings most people favor monogamous relationships (even though some that favor it, also favor cheating on the side). Besides, in open relationships the lines of cheating are blurred. For instance, emotional and mental deception in a consensual open relationship. What if I become attached to the woman (other than my primary partner) I am involved with but I don't reveal my feelings?

If that's not ok in your relationship then you're emotionally cheating, just like in any other relationship. What you do from there, whether renegotiate your original relationship, break up, or stop seeing that outside partner is up to you.

Not all open relationships see emotional attachment as a problem.

How can love be split among different partners without the risk of having more feelings for those other than your partner?

How can you have two children without risking loving one more than the other?
Odds are you'll either always feel closer to one than the other or you'll feel closer to one or the other depending on the day.

And finally from my own experience women do not prefer open relationships.....A good 99.9999%

The plural of anecdote isn't data. See OKCupid and Fetlife for websites where women as well as men are in or interested in open/poly relationships. Society doesn't prefer open relationships, and women are socialized in a way that promotes jealousy and monogamy and men are socialized in a way that promotes serial monogamy with only real monogamy later.

But that's just socialization.

Even if 99% of women aren't into open relationships - which I don't believe - that still leaves over 1.5 million women in the US. There are far more than the 150 or so that you claim.

I used to be with this chick who had a boyfriend and they were in a so-called "open relationship" cause he did his thing and she did hers but they always came back home together. But our situation was purely sexual. Not trying to be graphic but since I was way more well endowed than her partner majority of her outings were with me. Actually she was kind of clingy which is why I broke it off and told her to go back home and just only be with her man cause she isn't emotionally ready to be with other people.

Congratulations, you participated in an open relationship that went about the same as most relationships in the world do.
"Every relationship you're in is going to fail, until one doesn't"

 

[Averroes]

If that's not ok in your relationship then you're emotionally cheating, just like in any other relationship. What you do from there, whether renegotiate your original relationship, break up, or stop seeing that outside partner is up to you.

Not all open relationships see emotional attachment as a problem.


How can you have two children without risking loving one more than the other?
Odds are you'll either always feel closer to one than the other or you'll feel closer to one or the other depending on the day.


The plural of anecdote isn't data. See OKCupid and Fetlife for websites where women as well as men are in or interested in open/poly relationships. Society doesn't prefer open relationships, and women are socialized in a way that promotes jealousy and monogamy and men are socialized in a way that promotes serial monogamy with only real monogamy later.

But that's just socialization.

Even if 99% of women aren't into open relationships - which I don't believe - that still leaves over 1.5 million women in the US. There are far more than the 150 or so that you claim.


Congratulations, you participated in an open relationship that went about the same as most relationships in the world do.
"Every relationship you're in is going to fail, until one doesn't"

all I have to say is emotional attachment is an inevitability at some point.....the longer you are involved.

 

[Drolefille]

all I have to say is emotional attachment is an inevitability at some point.....the longer you are involved.

Which is why open relationships that permit long term sexual relationships rather than one off flings or party-play generally encourage emotional attachment.

I feel like you're assuming that emotional attachment is bad. I have two boyfriends, I'm emotionally attached to both and vice versa. They're also both emotionally attached to their wives. None of us are feeling like we need to leave one for the other.

 

[Falvlun]

If all my friends abandoned me tomorrow I still have my wife. The "ride or die" woman who ia my life partner. The one who is willing to walk through the depths of hell with me. My friends are an added bonus but my primary alligeance is to my wife. However I disagree heavily onbyour ending sentence totally backwards.

It's not about allegience. It's about the emotional and social support that friendship provides. You know, the whole reason we seek out friends. You are claiming that you wouldn't be lacking anything if you had no friends, and I call bs. There's a reason we have more than one friend, and you ignore that at your peril.

 

[Averroes]

Which is why open relationships that permit long term sexual relationships rather than one off flings or party-play generally encourage emotional attachment.

I feel like you're assuming that emotional attachment is bad. I have two boyfriends, I'm emotionally attached to both and vice versa. They're also both emotionally attached to their wives. None of us are feeling like we need to leave one for the other.

Well good for you to have two boyfriends lol

As I have shown in open relationships the lines of cheating are blurred. It's a slippery situation

 

[Averroes]

It's not about allegience. It's about the emotional and social support that friendship provides. You know, the whole reason we seek out friends. You are claiming that you wouldn't be lacking anything if you had no friends, and I call bs. There's a reason we have more than one friend, and you ignore that at your peril.

BS to you but each of us have unique ways of defining our lives no?

You don't personally know me so why call it bs?

My future wife can peovide all of that. If there are times when she isn't available, I can definitely have fun alone. Why else did I buy my ps3

 

[Drolefille]

Well good for you to have two boyfriends lol

As I have shown in open relationships the lines of cheating are blurred. It's a slippery situation

I responded to that point and you didn't respond. The lines of cheating are the same as in a monogamous relationship. My relationship pretty much allows us all free reign, but we would generally notify the other if we were going to get started in a new relationship, similarly we would tell each other afterwards if a one-night stand had occurred. Cheating would be lying about or hiding those things. It is more numerically complex but it isn't inherently confusing or blurred. People who cheat know they're cheating and people who're cheated on know they've been cheated on.

Ethical open relationships require honesty. But so do ethical monogamous relationships.

BS to you but each of us have unique ways of defining our lives no?

You don't personally know me so why call it bs?

My future wife can peovide all of that. If there are times when she isn't available, I can definitely have fun alone. Why else did I buy my ps3

You're just trolling here, right?

 

[Falvlun]

BS to you but each of us have unique ways of defining our lives no?

You don't personally know me so why call it bs?

My future wife can peovide all of that. If there are times when she isn't available, I can definitely have fun alone. Why else did I buy my ps3

Because I doubt that you are fully accepting the implications of what you are saying. And furthermore, I think your position puts way too much of a strain and expectation on the relationship you have with your partner, what with expecting that she will satisfy all your social and emotional needs.

Hey, I may be wrong. But I don't think I am.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think that good relationships are built on the idea of being fullfilled by someone else, becoming fullfilled wthiin one's self, and then bringingthat to share with someone else as a benefit to them. Along the way we find ourselves reaping the benefits they want to bring to us. I think an open relaionship where you date only others who also want an open relationship is limiting your choice of prospective partners to a point that will reduce the qualities to chose from in another person that are importand to you. This seems to be a set up for failure and lonliness. I also see problems with jealousy, family, social occaisons, confusion in the children, and sexual confusion for adolescents raised with parents of open relationship.

Good relationships do need some fullfillment though, the fulfillment of companionship, trust, communication, and availability are major ones that every relationship faces. Is your partner their mentally as well as physically, can you trust him/her, and how often you get to spend time with your partner are things that make or break many relationships.
Sexual fulfillment often does not come from one person. From their some are content with what they get, and some try and get more. It can range from differing fantasies, different activities, or even how often a couple has sex. Or some people have sex just because the mood was right. It doesn't mean your significant other isn't really being a fulfilling partner, it just means some people want variety.
As for jealousy, if that is an issue with one partner than an open relationship will not work. As for social issues some people do use the term "swinger" in a derogative since, it's not something people tend to get that worked up over. As for family and kids, any children do not need to know the sexual habits of their parents anymore than the children of parents in a non-open relationship. As for family issues, there are many things that will cause problems, and many of them far more dangerous than open-relationships.

 

[Kathryn]

Which is why open relationships that permit long term sexual relationships rather than one off flings or party-play generally encourage emotional attachment.

I feel like you're assuming that emotional attachment is bad. I have two boyfriends, I'm emotionally attached to both and vice versa. They're also both emotionally attached to their wives. None of us are feeling like we need to leave one for the other.

I don't want to scroll back thru the posts looking for this clarification, so humor me.

Did you say that the wives of the two men you're involved with KNOW about you or know that their husbands are involved with another woman?

 

[Drolefille]

I don't want to scroll back thru the posts looking for this clarification, so humor me.

Did you say that the wives of the two men you're involved with KNOW about you or know that their husbands are involved with another woman?

I'm good friends with one, more like acquaintances with the other, both know that their husbands and I are in relationships. In the case of the first, it was her idea to have an open relationship, she has had boyfriends before although none now. In the second, she'd given him a permission slip years ago, and gave the official 'sign off' on me when she met me.

I've spent the night at both houses many many times. No one is in the dark about me or any of the relationships

 

[Averroes]

I responded to that point and you didn't respond. The lines of cheating are the same as in a monogamous relationship. My relationship pretty much allows us all free reign, but we would generally notify the other if we were going to get started in a new relationship, similarly we would tell each other afterwards if a one-night stand had occurred. Cheating would be lying about or hiding those things. It is more numerically complex but it isn't inherently confusing or blurred. People who cheat know they're cheating and people who're cheated on know they've been cheated on.

Ethical open relationships require honesty. But so do ethical monogamous relationships.


You're just trolling here, right?

Let's go down the line.....

1) Open Relationships do in fact blur the line of fidelity because for 1) even I consent that you are not solely committed to me I therefore, have no obligation to tell you that I am involved with several women. Even if you and me and Joe all three have this love triangle going on there is no consent, nor a gurantee, nor a contract, that states that even though I consent to you being with me and joe, that I, don't go off and screw with Becky. In other words I don't owe it to you to be dedicated to you. So the burden is on you (since you have two boyfriends) to prove that how is cheating in open relationships the same as monogamous relationships.

If I find some woman in the mall there is no obligation for me to tell you. Even if you did find me hugged up with some woman after weeks of not speaking to you, my only answer would be that we are in an open relationship. For all I know, you may have feelings for me. I think you're selling yourself the idea that open relationships are morally equitable to monogamous relationships and they aren't.

2) With monogamous relationships there is that concrete understanding that I am committed to one person. With open relationships I am quite obviously, open to a variety of people. It's a non-commiting situation. Just because you have two boyfriends doesm't mean they are committed to you. For me, personally, and no offense to you, but I don't respect women with multiple partners especially when I am sexually involved with them. The chick I mentioned with the boyfriend, I didn't respect her, not even emotionally. To her sex was a commodity that needed to be renewed because she was ill-equipped to "spice up" her own sexual relationship, therefore she and her boyfriend decided to have an open relationship.

3) Me trolling?

I would come back with something but I don't want some random personal message from a mod giving me a warning so I will stay quiet on that note.

 

[Averroes]

Because I doubt that you are fully accepting the implications of what you are saying. And furthermore, I think your position puts way too much of a strain and expectation on the relationship you have with your partner, what with expecting that she will satisfy all your social and emotional needs.

Hey, I may be wrong. But I don't think I am.

you doubt? Dude, you don't even know me and if you said that to me in person I'd say you don't know **** Don't sit there and psychoanalyze me simply because what I said is an outlier of the kinds of personalities you're familiar with.

 

[McBell]

Let's go down the line.....

1) Open Relationships do in fact blur the line of fidelity because for 1) even I consent that you are not solely committed to me I therefore, have no obligation to tell you that I am involved with several women. Even if you and me and Joe all three have this love triangle going on there is no consent, nor a gurantee, nor a contract, that states that even though I consent to you being with me and joe, that I, don't go off and screw with Becky. In other words I don't owe it to you to be dedicated to you. So the burden is on you (since you have two boyfriends) to prove that how is cheating in open relationships the same as monogamous relationships.

If I find some woman in the mall there is no obligation for me to tell you. Even if you did find me hugged up with some woman after weeks of not speaking to you, my only answer would be that we are in an open relationship. For all I know, you may have feelings for me. I think you're selling yourself the idea that open relationships are morally equitable to monogamous relationships and they aren't.

2) With monogamous relationships there is that concrete understanding that I am committed to one person. With open relationships I am quite obviously, open to a variety of people. It's a non-commiting situation. Just because you have two boyfriends doesm't mean they are committed to you. For me, personally, and no offense to you, but I don't respect women with multiple partners especially when I am sexually involved with them. The chick I mentioned with the boyfriend, I didn't respect her, not even emotionally. To her sex was a commodity that needed to be renewed because she was ill-equipped to "spice up" her own sexual relationship, therefore she and her boyfriend decided to have an open relationship.

3) Me trolling?

I would come back with something but I don't want some random personal message from a mod giving me a warning so I will stay quiet on that note.

You have done nothing more than reveal your gross ignorance of open relationships.

Not to mention your grasp on monogamous relationships is also lacking.

 

[Songbird]

Let's go down the line.....

1) Open Relationships do in fact blur the line of fidelity because for 1) even I consent that you are not solely committed to me I therefore, have no obligation to tell you that I am involved with several women. Even if you and me and Joe all three have this love triangle going on there is no consent, nor a gurantee, nor a contract, that states that even though I consent to you being with me and joe, that I, don't go off and screw with Becky. In other words I don't owe it to you to be dedicated to you. So the burden is on you (since you have two boyfriends) to prove that how is cheating in open relationships the same as monogamous relationships.

If I find some woman in the mall there is no obligation for me to tell you. Even if you did find me hugged up with some woman after weeks of not speaking to you, my only answer would be that we are in an open relationship. For all I know, you may have feelings for me. I think you're selling yourself the idea that open relationships are morally equitable to monogamous relationships and they aren't.

2) With monogamous relationships there is that concrete understanding that I am committed to one person. With open relationships I am quite obviously, open to a variety of people. It's a non-commiting situation. Just because you have two boyfriends doesm't mean they are committed to you. For me, personally, and no offense to you, but I don't respect women with multiple partners especially when I am sexually involved with them. The chick I mentioned with the boyfriend, I didn't respect her, not even emotionally. To her sex was a commodity that needed to be renewed because she was ill-equipped to "spice up" her own sexual relationship, therefore she and her boyfriend decided to have an open relationship.

3) Me trolling?

I would come back with something but I don't want some random personal message from a mod giving me a warning so I will stay quiet on that note.

None of that is true of the people I know in open or poly relationships. What you say you might do in an open relationship is not at all how my friends behave. They are honest, committed to their loved ones, and very skilled at communicating. It seems like you don't understand this because you haven't experienced it.

 

[Songbird]

You have done nothing more than reveal your gross ignorance of open relationships.

Not to mention your grasp on monogamous relationships is also lacking.

That's a better way to phrase it than my comment.

 

[Drolefille]

Let's go down the line.....

1) Open Relationships do in fact blur the line of fidelity because for 1) even I consent that you are not solely committed to me I therefore, have no obligation to tell you that I am involved with several women. Even if you and me and Joe all three have this love triangle going on there is no consent, nor a gurantee, nor a contract, that states that even though I consent to you being with me and joe, that I, don't go off and screw with Becky. In other words I don't owe it to you to be dedicated to you. So the burden is on you (since you have two boyfriends) to prove that how is cheating in open relationships the same as monogamous relationships.

There's the same level of contract in a poly/open relationship as there is in a monogamous relationship. You seem to be assuming that no one cheats in a monogamous relationship which we know is a lie.

If I don't care whether you're involved with several women, then it doesn't matter.
If I do care and you're honest then you're participating in an ethical open relationship.
If I do care and you're dishonest, then you're cheating.

There is the same level of 'contract' in an open relationship as there is in a closed one.

If I find some woman in the mall there is no obligation for me to tell you. Even if you did find me hugged up with some woman after weeks of not speaking to you, my only answer would be that we are in an open relationship. For all I know, you may have feelings for me. I think you're selling yourself the idea that open relationships are morally equitable to monogamous relationships and they aren't.

You seem to be under the assumption that open relationships are all an 'anything goes' free for all.
If that's the relationship setup - lets call it "total open" - then yes, you're under no obligation to tell your partner AND you're still being faithful to the relationship.
If your relationship rules require consent of the other partner(s) - lets call it "open fidelity" then yes, you're under a moral/ethical obligation to acquire consent otherwise you're a cheater.

You seem to think that without monogamy is anarchy and the freedom to be unethical. This is not the case. Being an unethical cheating jerk makes you an unethical cheating jerk no matter how many people you're doing it to.

2) With monogamous relationships there is that concrete understanding that I am committed to one person. With open relationships I am quite obviously, open to a variety of people. It's a non-commiting situation. Just because you have two boyfriends doesm't mean they are committed to you. For me, personally, and no offense to you, but I don't respect women with multiple partners especially when I am sexually involved with them. The chick I mentioned with the boyfriend, I didn't respect her, not even emotionally. To her sex was a commodity that needed to be renewed because she was ill-equipped to "spice up" her own sexual relationship, therefore she and her boyfriend decided to have an open relationship.

So you admit to having sex with someone you didn't respect? And you think I'm the one with commitment issues? Suffice to say, we're quite committed to each other, and I really sincerely doubt you'll believe me when I say it, but I don't really care as it doesn't change the reality of the relationships. (Define commitment to you and I'll provide a dozen examples of how they've met that criteria outside of monogamy.)

You seem to think that a person cannot commit to more than one person. How does a parent manage to commit to more than one child?

3) Me trolling?

I would come back with something but I don't want some random personal message from a mod giving me a warning so I will stay quiet on that note.

When someone claims to need no social contact other than one's non-existant wife because one owns a video game console, I do tend to assume a lack of sincerity.

As others have pointed out, I find you to be intellectually dishonest in your responses on that matter. The idea that you'll pair bond with your wife and cease all other human contact because it is unneeded is either incredibly naive, or willfully ignorant.

 

[Averroes]

You have done nothing more than reveal your gross ignorance of open relationships.

Not to mention your grasp on monogamous relationships is also lacking.

well you've provided but nonsensical silly responses. So yeah I am done. I have only put what I've experienced. Perhaps if you were to put more into what you said than garbage My response to you would be more positive. I have been with someone in an open relationship. It was entirely sexual, with the exception of our outings. I guess for you guys that doesn't qualify