Are Christians actually worshiping the Father of Jesus?

[Marvin l George]

i think it is the same God, you know is a sheep and a lion

 

[mystic64]

i think it is the same God, you know is a sheep and a lion

Hi Marvin L Goerge and welcome to the message board and this topic . The argument that you are presenting is interesting. A lot of folks would agree with you.

 

[mystic64]

Welcome back Muffled . Just for fun, is there anything that I have posted in this topic that you disagree with ?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

quote=CynthiaCypher
They are worshiping the Demiurge, the Creator God. But Christ did not come from the Demiurge and neither did the Demiurge know him because if the Demiurge knew him then would not have crucified him. Christ comes from the Pleroma and his kingdom is not of this world. This is world belong to the Demiurge, he is the God of this world.

"We do, of course, speak “wisdom” among those who are spiritually mature, but it is not what is called wisdom by this world, nor by the powers-that-be, who soon will be only the powers that have been. The wisdom we speak of is that mysterious secret wisdom of God (Gnosis) which he planned before the creation for our glory today. None of the powers of this world have known this wisdom(The Archons)—if they had they would never have crucified the Lord of glory!" 1 Corinthians 2: 6-8
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From the Wikipedia:

The demiurge is a concept from the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy for an artisan-like figure responsible for the fashioning and maintenance of the physical universe. The term was subsequently adopted by the Gnostics. Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily thought of as being the same as the creator figure in the familiar monotheistic sense, because both the demiurge itself plus the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being, depending on the system.
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Hi CynthiaCypher and welcome to this topic! Your input is interesting and fits this topic very well. There does seem to me to be some confusion, "Christianity didn't crucify Lord Jesus?" CynthiaCypher are you saying that Christians are also worshipping the "Demiurge"? And that the Father of Lord Jesus is atually of the Pleroma and His Kingdom? I am kind of inclined to agree with you, "But how can this be ?" Christians follow Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior and He would be of the Pleroma?

Do many of them actually obey any of the commandments of Jesus? Not really. When you look at the politics of Christians, it seems like they are lackeys for the rich and powerful. That they honor Mammon over God, that they prefer the wealthy over the poor, instead of fighting for the oppress they uphold the oppressor.

To me that looks like most Christians are not honoring Jesus but worshiping power i.e the Demiurge, the god of power.

 

[mystic64]

Do many of them actually obey any of the commandments of Jesus? Not really. When you look at the politics of Christians, it seems like they are lackeys for the rich and powerful. That they honor Mammon over God, that they prefer the wealthy over the poor, instead of fighting for the oppress they uphold the oppressor.

To me that looks like most Christians are not honoring Jesus but worshiping power i.e the Demiurge, the god of power.

CynthisCypher, you and I seem to have similar views on some things . I have read a little bit of the Gnostic writings, teachings, and part of the Gnostic "big book" back in my younger days. So I have a little bit of a background with what you are talking about. "Worshipping the god of power?" Darn but that seems to be the state of most of humanity both past and present. What you are posting seems to have the quality of being a message to Christians as well as present a different angle/approach to supporting my original OP. A major part of the problem with being of the Gnostic (to know) is how to communicate the "to know" to others. Because, in the others' world, they already know.

In Nature, under the Goddess of Life, it is the survival of the fittest and the fittest has the most power. Love in the world of Nature is considered a luxury and to some degree a weakness. This creates conflict between survival in this world and the message of Jesus should one wish themselves and their loved ones to survive in this world. Lord Jesus seems to have "not" been preaching about survival in this world. His message seems to have been focused on how to become accepted in a way that allows you to enter into the world of the Father when one leaves this world. Thus Christians are in a delima should they wish to be Christian along with they and their loved ones also surviving in this world, which for the most part requires "power". Thus the solve becomes combining the Demiurge and the Pleroma in to one God that is both love and power with a major drift toward power because survival in this world requires "power". Which then creates a major drift away from the message of Lord Jesus.

So CynthiaCypther (or anybody) how does one who understands the "To Know" (Gnostic) explain to Christians that they have drifted into worshipping the wrong god because of the desire for themselves and their loved ones to be able to survive in this world?

 

[Nakosis]

Do many of them actually obey any of the commandments of Jesus? Not really. When you look at the politics of Christians, it seems like they are lackeys for the rich and powerful. That they honor Mammon over God, that they prefer the wealthy over the poor, instead of fighting for the oppress they uphold the oppressor.

To me that looks like most Christians are not honoring Jesus but worshiping power i.e the Demiurge, the god of power.

Do Gnostics see the Demiurge as having purpose or just as an aberration?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Do Gnostics see the Demiurge as having purpose or just as an aberration?

The purpose of the Demiurge was to create. But the Demiurge became confused and demonic in the process of creation and became the Destroyer. Just as governments are supposed to protect their citizenry they become demonic in the process and oppress their people, just as religions are suppose to guide and comfort us in our journey towards the truth they become demonic and set out to deceive us and fill us with fear.