Are atheists arrogant? immoral? angry?

[McBell]

I don't care what anyone believes. That's their own dusiness. And I don't generally believe anything, myself. I'm just responding the obvious BS I see being posted as a favor to those posting it. But they're too blinded by ego and willful ignorance to see the BS and learn anything.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't care what anyone believes. That's their own business.

Then why are you so arrogant, angry and aggressive against other beliefs, ie atheism?

"And I don't generally believe anything, myself. I'm just responding the obvious BS I see being posted as a favor to those posting it. But they're too blinded by ego and willful ignorance to see the BS and learn anything.

Previous statements by you reflect a Fundamentalist Christian perspective, particularly when you questioned whether atheists had a basis for rejecting Noah's Flood. The accusation of atheists lying about their beliefs is also a Fundamentalist Christin perspective based on scripture.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Caterpillars also lack belief in God. So do rocks and clouds. Thus rendering your silly definition very, very non-definitive. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you are so intent on pushing a definition that doesn't define anything.

But we aren't talking about any creatures other than humans. Your remark is as silly as noting that caterpillars are not Republicans.

 

[PureX]

Her definition specified people: "People who are "undecided" lack a belief in God, and are thus considered atheists, although we refer to their subgroup as agnostic atheists."

But it does.

I would have quibbled with her definition a bit, but chose not to when I saw it. That's probably because I appreciated her (@IndigoChild5559 ) support as well as that from @SalixIncendium and @shunyadragon, none of whom are atheists I believe.

It's because you promote the same nonsense.

"Non-theist" is a far more deliberate and precise term for a human that does not "believe in God/gods" (since theists are all humans it stands to reason that then so would the non-theist). Even though belief doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not one agrees with the theist proposition or not. It at least eliminates this idiotic "hard" and "soft" atheism gibberish.

I will now. First, undecided isn't really the right word for agnosticism.

I agree, gnosticism/agnosticism are propositions in response to a different question. There are plenty of agnostic theists, and agnostoc atheists. The question for them is: then upon what are you basing your position, of not knowledge?

It implies indecision or a sense of uncertainty.

It doesn't "imply" anything. It is directly related to the proposition that we either can or cannot know the nature and existence of God/gods.

My definition is closer to unknowing. In the context of god beliefs, it is the "I don't know" answer to the question,

Again, what YOU (or anyone) knows or doesn't know is not the determining issue. The determining issue is the proposition that we humans can (or cannot) know the nature and existence of God/gods. Just as yours or anyone else's "belief in God" (or lack of it) does not define theism, nor atheism. What defines theism and atheism are the proposition and it's antithetical; that God/gods do or do not exist. If you have no stance in regard to this proposition, because you are agnostic, or because you have otherwise just not positioned yourself, you are neither theist nor atheist. You are a non-theist, or undecided, or maybe even indifferent. And you're probably also agnostic (unless you are just indifferent).

The important point to recognize AND UNDERSTAND here is that OUR beliefs, opinions, thoughts, feelings, resentments, or whatever else do not define the terms. What defines the terms are the propositions they represent and their antitheses.

I disagree that people who are "undecided" about gods are necessarily atheists. They're agnostic, and can be theists or atheists.

They are simply undecided. That's it. That they are undecided or why they are undecided has no bearing on the terms. The terms mean what they mean. And that is determined by their propositional content. Not by OUR reaction to it.

And if you want a definition of atheist that excludes rocks, caterpillars, and infants, try mine: A person who answers no to the question of whether he believes in a god or gods. This si why I call people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson atheist even though they describe themselves as agnostic:

Yours has failed because it depends on what "a person believes". The propositions stand on their own, regardless of who believes what. And that is what does and should define the terms.

 

[PureX]

Then why are you so arrogant, angry and aggressive against other beliefs, ie atheism?

I'm not. You just don't like being called out for being wrong.

Previous statements by you reflect a Fundamentalist Christian perspective, particularly when you questioned whether atheists had a basis for rejecting Noah's Flood. The accusation of atheists lying about their beliefs is also a Fundamentalist Christin perspective based on scripture.

I've never posted a word about Noah's flood or any other Christian perspective. So this is all make-believe on your part.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

"Non-theist" is a far more deliberate and precise term for a human that does not "believe in God/gods"

Nontheist is just another way of saying atheist. "non-" and "a-" serve the same function. They are privative prefixes, and are used to name the complement or opposite of the term written without one. Other privative prefixes include the following. All of these prefixes mean the same thing, as do atheist and nontheist:

un - unyielding
in - incapable
il - illogical
im - immodest
ir- irrational

belief doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not one agrees with the theist proposition or not.

Belief and only belief have everything to do with whether one calls himself a theist or an atheist. How do you not know that?

It at least eliminates this idiotic "hard" and "soft" atheism gibberish.

If it's idiotic to you, then you don't understand it. See below.

what YOU (or anyone) knows or doesn't know is not the determining issue.

Claims of knowledge regarding gods and only such claims have everything to do with whether one calls himself agnostic or gnostic, the "idiotic" distinction you cannot conceptualize.

because you are agnostic, or because you have otherwise just not positioned yourself, you are neither theist nor atheist.

This is also incorrect (and antiquated). I just explained to you that both a theist and an atheist can be agnostic or gnostic. That can be diagrammed as a 2x2 Punnett square distributing two independent variables with two possibilities each over one another:

The geometry of your nomenclature is linear, with three mutually exclusive (one can be any of the three, but not two or all three) and collectively exhaustive (everybody fits into one of the boxes) categories:

That's inadequate to describe the logical possibilities, of which there are four.

Incidentally, the concept of a group being mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive is called the MECE principle.

Yours has failed because it depends on what "a person believes".

 

[shunyadragon]

I wouldn’t say that is a one way street.

Doesn’t matter.. in any group you can find those types of people. I’m sure there are some in the Bahai too.

In the world in history it is Christianity and Islam that persecuted, condemned and even executed atheists. and still today in the USA atheists among the most disliked of minorities.

 

[Revoltingest]

Caterpillars also lack belief in God. So do rocks and clouds.

I can picture it now.....

 

[shunyadragon]

Nontheist is just another way of saying atheist. "non-" and "a-" serve the same function. They are privative prefixes, and are used to name the complement or opposite of the term written without one. Other privative prefixes include the following. All of these prefixes mean the same thing, as do atheist and nontheist:

un - unyielding
in - incapable
il - illogical
im - immodest
ir- irrational

Belief and only belief have everything to do with whether one calls himself a theist or an atheist. How do you not know that?

If it's idiotic to you, then you don't understand it. See below.

Claims of knowledge regarding gods and only such claims have everything to do with whether one calls himself agnostic or gnostic, the "idiotic" distinction you cannot conceptualize.

This is also incorrect (and antiquated). I just explained to you that both a theist and an atheist can be agnostic or gnostic. That can be diagrammed as a 2x2 Punnett square distributing two independent variables with two possibilities each over one another:

View attachment 89358

The geometry of your nomenclature is linear, with three mutually exclusive (one can be any of the three, but not two or all three) and collectively exhaustive (everybody fits into one of the boxes) categories:

View attachment 89357

That's inadequate to describe the logical possibilities, of which there are four.

Incidentally, the concept of a group being mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive is called the MECE principle.

Sort of okay diagram but too many walls and fences. I figger a lot of pep[le are getting splinters in their butts.

 

[PureX]

Nontheist is just another way of saying atheist.

That's wrong for a very simple and obvious reason. And that reason is that atheism is the antithetical of the theist proposition. That's what the "a" prefix means: antithetical. While non-theism is just not theism. It's that "lack" of theism that so many of you self-proclaimed atheists are always trying to hide your belief in atheism behind.

 

[Kenny]

In the world in history it is Christianity and Islam that persecuted, condemned and even executed atheists. and still today in the USA atheists among the most disliked of minorities.

I have to see some statistics. Stalin and Mao seem to have the lion share of hatred and persuecution

 

[Kathryn]

I have to see some statistics. Stalin and Mao seem to have the lion share of hatred and persuecution

You may find Life and Death in Shanghai a very interesting book.
Did you know that my search engine wouldn't find it? I typed in "solitary confinement under Mao book" and "imprisonment under Mao book" and nothing. Thankfully I remembered the exact title. It has 4.3 stars out of 5 on Goodreads.

 

[Kenny]

You may find Life and Death in Shanghai a very interesting book.
Did you know that my search engine wouldn't find it? I typed in "solitary confinement under Mao book" and "imprisonment under Mao book" and nothing. Thankfully I remembered the exact title. It has 4.3 stars out of 5 on Goodreads.

I am finding more and more that the internet algorithms are stacked against truth.

Will look it up

 

[Kathryn]

I am finding more and more that the internet algorithms are stacked against truth.

Will look it up.

That's why I gave you the actual name of the book.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have to see some statistics. Stalin and Mao seem to have the lion share of hatred and persuecution

We have been over this many many times, When are you going to get over it, Do not confuse atheism with Nationalist Manifest Destiny where Christians are also involved in Europe. Like Hitler in Europe the Christians of Russia supported Stalin's pogroms, and Stalin's goal was to fulfill Czarist goal of the old empire. In China Mao ruled like an emperor as in history and the Book on the his bedside table was written how to rule China by a previous emperor. Putin today is following the same Nationalist Manifest Destiny. Putin is also appealing to the Manifest Destiny claims of the Russian Ortho Church in his brutal invasion of Ukraine and desire to Dominate Eastern Europe. The Conservative Christians in the USA love Putin and Trump today and Trump publicly gave his full loving support for the current ruler of Hungary bank rolled by Putin.

The brutal pogroms of Christians in Europe against Jews, Homosexuals and other minorities span over 2000 years. The Jews of Europe were called "Christ killers" and whole villages were eliminated a number of times over this period. Hitler followed Martin Luther's blue print for eliminating the Jews.

I do not believe your "numbers game" is very cruel and cold, and does not consider the REAL history. Even today anti-semitism and against the LGBQ community violence is wide spread in the USA, and atheists are among the most disliked minority.

 

[shunyadragon]

You may find Life and Death in Shanghai a very interesting book.
Did you know that my search engine wouldn't find it? I typed in "solitary confinement under Mao book" and "imprisonment under Mao book" and nothing. Thankfully I remembered the exact title. It has 4.3 stars out of 5 on Goodreads.

I know the book studied history and lived in China, You like other Christians ar ebeing selective in your consideration of history. See post #415. Yo need to read Martin Luther's book Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen (On the Jews and Their Lies). and the 2000 years of pogroms against the Jews, homosexuals and other minorities.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am finding more and more that the internet algorithms are stacked against truth.

Will look it up

I am sure there are many algorithms against a multitude of conflicting claims of truth by fallible humans, Claims of absolute truth that only exists in their singular egocentric claim of truth, A truth that does not exist from the any human perspective.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, actually it doesn't. Which is why you're pushing it. You and the others want to pretend you have no position.

What are you talking about...
Atheism is a position on theistic claims.

Like your silly definition of atheism, you can keep repeating it, but you can't justify it. So it's never going to convince anyone but you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And that reason is that atheism is the antithetical of the theist proposition.

It is not.
How many times must this be pointed out by how many people to you before you'll correct this mistake of yours?

That's what the "a" prefix means: antithetical.

lol, no it doesn't.

It means "not" or "without".

While non-theism is just not theism.

Not-theism.
Without-theism.

A-theist.

It's that "lack" of theism that so many of you self-proclaimed atheists are always trying to hide your belief in atheism behind.

There is no hiding. It's what the "a"-prefix in "atheist" means.

Like asymmetrical.
It doesn't tell you would type of shape it is.
It tells you what type of shape it is not: symmetrical.
So what you know about the "asymmetrical" shape, is what it is NOT. It is NOT symmetrical.

You don't know how many sides it has, how many corners it has, if it has curves or only straight lines,....
You know close to nothing. All you know is that it is a shape and that it is NOT symmetrical.

 

[Kenny]

We have been over this many many times, When are you going to get over it, Do not confuse atheism with Nationalist Manifest Destiny where Christians are also involved in Europe.

Yes… we have gone over this before and I wonder when you are going to get over a narrative that justifies the atrocities of these atheists who wanted religion eliminated.