Are all religions cults?

[amorphous_constellation]

But, if we go by the “BITE” model of what a cult is, does all religion necessarily fall under such a model?
If so, why?

Behavior, Information, Thought and Emotion Control

I think that it is obvious that God will not use control over the creation and so any group who uses it is a cult, imo.

Never heard of it before.. If you change control to 'choice' is it still a cult then, it almost seems like the rest of those things hinge on the concept that is 'control.' Also what exactly is the etymology of the word 'cult.' Not sure I've ever looked up what the root concepts are that went into building that word.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

1 Corinthians 6:18...."Flee from fornication."
Is this cultish?

1 Corinthians 5:13....“Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Is this cultish?

John 15:14...."You are my friends if you do what I command."
Is this cultish?

 

[wizanda]

Are all religions cults?

A religion should be a set of moral values we all have within our society that are standards we all live by...

What many of us have been indoctrinated into is follow the leader, which is following a cult; where we follow a charismatic leader who makes us believe in them, rather than our own personal spiritual growth.

So when we have multiple so called religions named after the person we follow, Christianity, Buddhism, Krishna Consciousness, Muhammadanism, etc...

Where they get us to become devotees to the leader, when if we observe what was really stated, the teachers told us to become like them or better.

The idea we now see religion as optional is also part of us being inside a giant cult of the Roman Empire, where our language divides us, as we don't realize Moses, Muhammad, Lao Tzu, etc, established governments, and legal systems for the whole of society...

Religion should be something that is evolved into a knowledge of reality, and integrated with science for personal development, else we're still under some form of follow the leaders system (cult).

But, if we go by the “BITE” model of what a cult is, does all religion necessarily fall under such a model?

The model is a bias anti-religious cult in the first place, it doesn't follow language properly on the definition of a cult, and gets us to ascribe to a set of incorrect statements, so we make a bias conclusion that limits our potential of understanding all religious values.

In my opinion.

 

[SomeRandom]

A religion should be a set of moral values we all have within our society that are standards we all live by...

What many of us have been indoctrinated into is follow the leader, which is following a cult; where we follow a charismatic leader who makes us believe in them, rather than our own personal spiritual growth.

So when we have multiple so called religions named after the person we follow, Christianity, Buddhism, Krishna Consciousness, Muhammadanism, etc...

Where they get us to become devotees to the leader, when if we observe what was really stated, the teachers told us to become like them or better.

The idea we now see religion as optional is also part of us being inside a giant cult of the Roman Empire, where our language divides us, as we don't realize Moses, Muhammad, Lao Tzu, etc, established governments, and legal systems for the whole of society...

Religion should be something that is evolved into a knowledge of reality, and integrated with science for personal development, else we're still under some form of follow the leaders system (cult).

The model is a bias anti-religious cult in the first place, it doesn't follow language properly on the definition of a cult, and gets us to ascribe to a set of incorrect statements, so we make a bias conclusion that limits our potential of understanding all religious values.

In my opinion.

Hmm. Meta.

I don’t know if I agree that the BITE is anti religious per se. Just stringently anti control.

 

[SomeRandom]

1 Corinthians 6:18...."Flee from fornication."
Is this cultish?

1 Corinthians 5:13....“Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Is this cultish?

John 15:14...."You are my friends if you do what I command."
Is this cultish?

Honestly, yes?
Fleeing from fornication is a little....weird. I mean a brisk walk in the opposite direction, if one is opposed, perhaps. But fleeing is a little drastic.
Expelling the wicked? I mean I suppose it depends on what definition of wicked one is using.
Demanding obedience in order to be friends is rather cultish, honestly. Anyone asks that is not a true friend.

 

[FooYang]

But fleeing is a little drastic.

Not really, hasn't the world seen enough sex organs and butt cracks by now? surely Science should compel you that sex is worth not pursuing?

 

[wizanda]

I don’t know if I agree that the BITE is anti religious per se. Just stringently anti control.

Steven Hassan’s BITE Model

Behavior Control

• Promote dependence and obedience
  
• Modify behavior with rewards and punishments
• Dictate where and with whom you live
• Restrict or control sexuality
• Control clothing and hairstyle
• Regulate what and how much you eat and drink
• Deprive you of seven to nine hours of sleep
• Exploit you financially
• Restrict leisure time and activities
• Require you to seek permission for major decisions

Information Control

• Deliberately withhold and distort information
• Forbid you from speaking with ex-members and critics
• Discourage access to non-cult sources of information
• Divide information into Insider vs. Outsider doctrine
• Generate and use propaganda extensively
• Use information gained in confession sessions against you
• Gaslight to make you doubt your own memory
• Require you to report thoughts, feelings, & activities to superiors
• Encourage you to spy and report on others’ “misconduct”

Thought Control

• Instill Black vs. White, Us vs. Them, & Good vs. Evil thinking
• Change your identity, possibly even your name
• Use loaded language and cliches to stop complex thought
• Induce hypnotic or trance states to indoctrinate
• Teach thought-stopping techniques to prevent critical thoughts
• Allow only positive thoughts
• Use excessive meditation, singing, prayer, & chanting to block thoughts
• Reject rational analysis, critical thinking, & doubt

Emotional Control

• Instill irrational fears (phobias) of questioning or leaving the group
• Label some emotions as evil, worldly, sinful, or wrong
• Teach emotion-stopping techniques to prevent anger, homesickness
• Promote feelings of guilt, shame, & unworthiness
• Shower you with praise and attention (“love bombing”)
• Threaten your friends and family
• Shun you if you disobey or disbelieve
• Teach that there is no happiness or peace outside the group

Religion is about disciplining our self to be better people, loads of these apply to being a better person, and nothing to do with a cult...

A cult takes our ownership away, and puts us under a charismatic leader.

Like many of that list we could apply to our schooling system or government control, which defines us all in a cult; yet many of those do not apply to all religion, they apply to specific extremist cults like Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.

Tho the idea of BITE isn't a bad starting point, the list is bias as the person is anti-religion, and thus is creating a religious strawman...

Tempted to create a better list, which actually applies to cults vs religion.

In my opinion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If this is in an inappropriate forum, mods please move.
Lately I’ve been watching a lot of “ex” whatevers. People who left very controlling religions and call out such behaviour. Which has greatly fascinated me. As a Dharmic, forging one’s spiritual path is something of a matter of pride. Something expected even.
Having “apostate” thoughts isn’t a cause for disfellowship or anything like that. It’s almost encouraged. This does not seem to be the case for the “exes” that I’ve been watching.

So I never really understood the Abrahamic paradigm of the apostates or atheists or anything like that. Not really.

I dabbled with this idea in the past and perhaps I’m finally ready to truly entertain it.

But, if we go by the “BITE” model of what a cult is, does all religion necessarily fall under such a model?
If so, why?

This is where I believe human rights and justice must be enforced to ensure all people are free to join or leave any religion without being viewed as traitors or apostates.

In some societies the family turns against a member who chooses a different religion to them or it can be the state which is against freedom of religion.

The controlling often comes from within the family who can be intolerant towards members if they choose other beliefs. Or the state if the religion is outlawed.

In your heart no one can force you to believe whatever you want. But political and traditional elements can oppress people to recant or remain in a faith.

 

[SomeRandom]

Religion is about disciplining our self to be better people, loads of these apply to being a better person, and nothing to do with a cult...

A cult takes our ownership away, and puts us under a charismatic leader.

Like many of that list we could apply to our schooling system or government control, which defines us all in a cult; yet many of those do not apply to all religion, they apply to specific extremist cults like Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.

Tho the idea of BITE isn't a bad starting point, the list is bias as the person is anti-religion, and thus is creating a religious strawman...

Tempted to create a better list, which actually applies to cults vs religion.

In my opinion.

Well you’re assuming I’m using the word “cult”as a pejorative. While that can be the case when discussing specific circumstances, I view the term as largely neutral.

Religion to me is more about conditioning. Self discipline for me takes the form of various philosophical schools. Though perhaps this belies my Dharmic background.

If you wish to create a better model, I certainly won’t stand in your way. I’d be curious to see it, in fact.

 

[SomeRandom]

Not really, hasn't the world seen enough sex organs and butt cracks by now? surely Science should compel you that sex is worth not pursuing?

Well I’m not an “Ace” so perhaps you might want to ask them?
The world will see sex organs and butt cracks until the end of humanity. Science merely tells me the labels we have for them and the biological function each serves. Nothing more.
Besides, if I fled from such things I’d never get to enjoy the pleasure of the Western Literary canon or indeed some of the most beautiful art works the human race has to offer.
I likes art too much to flee from a butt crack

 

[wizanda]

Well you’re assuming I’m using the word “cult”as a pejorative.

Wasn't trying to include your personal understanding of a cult, it is more the ideas presented miss that we're incorrectly using words in modern times, and I'm personally seeing this now as a giant cult of the Roman Empire, to keep us in an age of limitation (Kali Yuga).

Religion to me is more about conditioning. Self discipline for me takes the form of various philosophical schools.

This is part of our modern problem, we're told philosophy, religion, and government are separate by our Roman Empire Latin languages...

Yet to the Greek philosophers, they had a religious based language that inspired them to build the advanced mental constructs; like take into account philosophy is the Love of the Goddess of Wisdom.

We've been limited into a system of control, where we are all following charismatic leaders, and given beliefs with limited information outside of it.

So in books like 1984, and Brave New World these are portraying our current indoctrinated state, where we think it is them over there, when clearly it is all of us inside this global cult already.

Re-Legion is even badly translated from Latin, Re means to bring into or under, and Legion is a group of people, so it is to bring people into or under groups...

A dictionary definition of a religion is a group of people with a set of fundamental beliefs.

So if a group of people had societal values, these became religions in the past; now tho it has become this follow the leader mentality, and then 'conditioning' into a system of control...

Yet if we study the religious texts, many of the teachers even warn this will happen, as clerical mindsets of clergy, etc, often turn it into something to maintain, rather than to expand.

A religion or philosophy should allow us to grow from the additional knowledge about our reality, and the sense of community from all having a mutual understanding; a cult limits us into being conditioned.

Like many religious texts Zoroastrian, Quran, Hindu, Bible, etc, all define that all the religious understandings are one, and thus there isn't limitation; the problem comes when people inside the cult mentality instil it...

This is where I've often failed on this forum between cult mentality claiming they follow religious texts, when they clearly don't, and I've become the enemy for saying look there is alternative perspectives to what you've been taught; yet people will fight to maintain their cult ideologies, because of fear of losing sight of what they've always thought they've known.

In my opinion.

 

[SomeRandom]

Wasn't trying to include your personal understanding of a cult, it is more the ideas presented miss that we're incorrectly using words in modern times, and I'm personally seeing this now as a giant cult of the Roman Empire, to keep us in an age of limitation (Kali Yuga).

Oh. Why do you think this? I mean, we have the internet now. A massive amount of previously unknown information at our very fingertips. I suppose the flood of information might not be beneficial in all circumstances. But we have learnt much from the Romans and have arguably surpassed them. Or are you talking about spiritually?

This is part of our modern problem, we're told philosophy, religion, and government are separate by our Roman Empire Latin languages...

But English is a German tongue. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

I don't know if I want Government to be intertwined with anything religious, honestly. Religion and philosophy are interchangeable to me.

Yet to the Greek philosophers, they had a religious based language that inspired them to build the advanced mental constructs; like take into account philosophy is the Love of the Goddess of Wisdom.

Well yeah, but they also had their own unique issues. Religion does not preclude great human accomplishments. Neither do they necessarily lead to them.

We've been limited into a system of control, where we are all following charismatic leaders, and given beliefs with limited information outside of it.

Example?

So in books like 1984, and Brave New World these are portraying our current indoctrinated state, where we think it is them over there, when clearly it is all of us inside this global cult already.

Well I suppose there is something to be said of how many concepts in books like 1984 are now taken for granted. Constant surveillance comes to mind.

Re-Legion is even badly translated from Latin, Re means to bring into or under, and Legion is a group of people, so it is to bring people into or under groups...

A dictionary definition of a religion is a group of people with a set of fundamental beliefs.

Ehh, English is a rather drunk language. I tend not to begrudge horrible mistranslations.

So if a group of people had societal values, these became religions in the past; now tho it has become this follow the leader mentality, and then 'conditioning' into a system of control...

Yet if we study the religious texts, many of the teachers even warn this will happen, as clerical mindsets of clergy, etc, often turn it into something to maintain, rather than to expand.

Well I mean I guess I can agree with this. I am automatically suspicious of anyone telling me that I have to follow them spiritually just because they are the clergy or a priest or what have you. I prefer to walk my own path

A religion or philosophy should allow us to grow from the additional knowledge about our reality, and the sense of community from all having a mutual understanding; a cult limits us into being conditioned.

Well, I mean, where is the line drawn exactly though?

Like many religious texts Zoroastrian, Quran, Hindu, Bible, etc, all define that all the religious understandings are one, and thus there isn't limitation; the problem comes when people inside the cult mentality instil it...

Yes, in the texts, there is often a call for mutual understanding rather than divides. But I can't say that definitively, since I have not read all scriptures.

This is where I've often failed on this forum between cult mentality claiming they follow religious texts, when they clearly don't, and I've become the enemy for saying look there is alternative perspectives to what you've been taught; yet people will fight to maintain their cult ideologies, because of fear of losing sight of what they've always thought they've known.

In my opinion.

I'll take your word for it. But I do think it's healthy to have someone to be a "trouble maker."

 

[savagewind]

1 Corinthians 6:18...."Flee from fornication."
Is this cultish?

1 Corinthians 5:13....“Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Is this cultish?

John 15:14...."You are my friends if you do what I command."
Is this cultish?

I think it does not mean cultish to follow wisdom.

A cult is a group of people who exclude others who do not follow the cult's official code. In the case of the Jehovah's Witness' cult the more a person behaves according to the regulations of the group, the more honor and privilege is bestowed on them.

 

[Augustus]

I disagree with this point. Religions typically have hierarchical organizations that allow authority to be dispensed at local levels, meaning that controls such as excommunication (or disfellowshipping, shunning, etc.) can be invoked without reference to a central authority in a large organization.

And in general, mass religions do not have this degree of control over their members. That it can, in theory, happen does not mean that this represents the normal state of affairs.

Most religious adherents go to a church/mosque/temple infrequently then leave and go home with little to no interaction with 'leaders'. The idea that the 'leaders' try to exert cult-like control their lives is ludicrous.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If this is in an inappropriate forum, mods please move.
Lately I’ve been watching a lot of “ex” whatevers. People who left very controlling religions and call out such behaviour. Which has greatly fascinated me. As a Dharmic, forging one’s spiritual path is something of a matter of pride. Something expected even.
Having “apostate” thoughts isn’t a cause for disfellowship or anything like that. It’s almost encouraged. This does not seem to be the case for the “exes” that I’ve been watching.

So I never really understood the Abrahamic paradigm of the apostates or atheists or anything like that. Not really.

I dabbled with this idea in the past and perhaps I’m finally ready to truly entertain it.

But, if we go by the “BITE” model of what a cult is, does all religion necessarily fall under such a model?
If so, why?

First time ever I sat through a mass in a church was at my grandpa's funeral.
If memory serves me right, I was 22 at the time I think.

It scared the living cr*p out of me. It felt extremely cult-ish to me.
It also angred me deeply that they reduced the incredible life of my grandpa to this generic religious sh*t in, what to me were, extremely condescending ways. And "praise jesus" for "saving" my "wicked evil cockroach of a grandpa" because if it wasn't for "holy jesus" then surely all he deserved was eternal torment.

Those weren't their exact words of course, it was all generic refering to all humans and with a bit of tact and more subtle. But that's basically what they said. It's what christianity is. It tells you that you are rotten to the core and then provide this magical cure of salvation, which is apparantly obtained by a human sacrifice of a guy who's immortal anyway.

Yes, it's all about emotional control. It's emotional blackmail, really.
It's a gigantic guilt trip.

I don't know if it strictly falls under the definition of the word "cult", but as far as I am concerned - it sure is a cult.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In general, mass religions don't seem to me to meet the criteria. While obviously some forms cover some of them, this is a bit specious. Scale is everything as the model can't work on a large, impersonal scale. The cult needs sufficient control over an individual's life which can only be done via personal relationships.

The vast majority of dangerous groups I've encountered over the years have been Christian in nature, so apparently, "mass religions" sometimes can meet the criteria.

 

[LuisDantas]

Ok, so do you run or donate to any charities? if not, why not? I assume if you detect such a so-called "threat" then you would.

Pardon me?

Why would any answers to this question relate in any way to the subject matter?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1 Corinthians 6:18...."Flee from fornication."
Is this cultish?

1 Corinthians 5:13....“Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Is this cultish?

John 15:14...."You are my friends if you do what I command."
Is this cultish?

It sure sounds like those are elements that could be part if the foundation of a dangerous group.

(And I would definitely classify the JWs as a dangerous group)

 

[Audie]

1 Corinthians 6:18...."Flee from fornication."
Is this cultish?

1 Corinthians 5:13....“Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Is this cultish?

John 15:14...."You are my friends if you do what I command."
Is this cultish?

Ifn ya cant recognize JW is a cult....

 

[Audie]

It sure sounds like those are elements that could be part if the foundation of a dangerous group.

(And I would definitely classify the JWs as a dangerous group)

Could'st list some of the ways it is dangerous, and to whom?