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Apostasy and eternal salvation. A question

paradox

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
Audie said:
Ah, someone nade it uo for you.
Click to expand...
Certainly not, wikipedia source gives general definition.
According to Catholic doctrine it is more specific.

footnoes from "the bible of Jerusalem" for instance are clear about what is apostasy,
there is no such thing as I accept Jesus but reject salvation, this is blasphemy not apostasy.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
paradox said:
Certainly not, wikipedia source gives general definition.
According to Catholic doctrine it is more specific.

footnoes from "the bible of Jerusalem" for instance are clear about what is apostasy,
there is no such thing as I accept Jesus but reject salvation, this is blasphemy not apostasy.
Click to expand...

The word " Blashemy" wil lalways associate
in my mind with a movie, with some ponderous
old white haired man shaking his jowels
and spluttering the word BLASPHEMY! in shocked outrage.
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Gargovic Malkav said:
Cognitive dissonance is a terrible state of mind to be in.
Whatever path you think is right, take it easy, and don't be too hard on yourself.
And when you feel nothing makes sense anymore, just keep it as simple as possible: Just be, and accept whatever you're experiencing without trying to draw conclusions or trying to resist or embrace it, just be. In time you'll get your peace of mind back.
I don't know if this is too vague, but this way of thinking helps me a great deal to keep my head on my shoulders.
Click to expand...

Not thinking is relaxing.
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Xavier Graham SA said:
www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.
Click to expand...

The loss of faith seems horrible. Your whole world crashed. We all feel sorry for your loss. Now you wonder if you ever believed in the first place. Of course you believed at one time. Kids believe in Santa, and they have a child-like innocense. Yet, the decision to drop your religion, while many retain theirs, is the bold step of a maverick--someone who thinks for himself. No longer will you donate to starving Africans to find that your donation is air conditioning a dog house in Beverly Hills for the cheating pastors who suckered you out of your mammon. You won't fall for the idea of eternal war for peace, with the contradiction that God said "thou shalt not kill." You will think for yourself, and not be guided like a sheep into hell by a highly educated pastor who lacks understanding in God's laws (like Reverend John Hagee who said that we have to pray to Jesus to do better (kill more effectively) in war).

In your rejection of your current religion, you are now free to seek out moral rectitude. Do the moral thing, not the thing that Satan makes your preacher tell you to do. You will get to heaven even without Satan telling you to "fight the Axis of Evil" and without the torture camp in Guantanamo. You will get to heaven without supporting the illegal espionage of phone tapping (Google Eric Snowden for more details), and without the CIA ordered to rewrite Wikipedia articles to deny Global Warming and cover up the torture at Guantanamo, and cover up all of the other torture camps around the world (Iraq, ship on the Indian Ocean, etc).

Your morality will improve when you are not following Satan to hell by following misguided preachers.

The road to heaven is a lonely one. It is not supposed to be filled with those bound for hell. It is a path that we embark upon alone....a path of righteousness....a path of logic.

It makes no logical sense to fight an endless war for peace.

Without following your religion, you are free to follow your heart. Look at the homeless situation, and figure out how you can help directly.,

The surest way to end up in hell is to ignore God, and God's laws. Obviously Jesus tended to the weakest among us....the sick....the homeless....the injured. Jesus went around curing people. He cured a blind man who didn't even want to be cured, and he never asked to be financially compensated. Obviously God wants universal health care....but notice how the Religious Right fought vociferously against Obamacare.

Notice how the Religious Right called Global Warming a hoax and environmental activists Ozone Bozos. You have a chance, now, to think for yourself. You have a chance to listen to bonafide scientists tell you the truth about the destruction of the planet, and you can do something about it. You are no longer tied to a religion that is anti-science and anti-Christ.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
Xavier Graham SA said:
www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.
Click to expand...
I am sure only God knows a person’s heart and mind; when or if they truly believed and expressed living faith and trust in Christ or when/ if a person turns away from Christ. I lean toward the concept that if a person is truly born again to new life, they cannot be unborn. But I certainly don’t understand everything fully. Today, I read in Proverbs 21:16 something which may be related...
A man who wanders from the way of understanding will rest in the assembly of the dead.
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Viker said:
When I was a child I wanted to believe and really felt I believed. When I prayed I was usually praising and/or begging and not asking for toys. How much does a tormented child have to beg?

I suppose I am just an apostate, never believed and asked wrong.
Click to expand...
A few years back my six year old grandson was diagnosed with a nut allergy, he was having painful reactions to various foods, so he prayed to "god" to help him. When his young prayers went unanswered, he told his mother he was now an atheist, since god can't exist if it wouldn't help him.

Smart kid, or a very sh***y deity of course. Either way he (my grandson) made me smile, and not for the first time.

I never said a word...:cool: Since I have always thought it would be wrong to proselytise children.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Xavier Graham SA said:
www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.
Click to expand...
being a believer doesn't require self to be an idolator. the idea is for the student to become like the teacher. Not idolize them. it enough to love one another.



luke 6:40
matthew 10:24
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Sheldon said:
A few years back my six year old grandson was diagnosed with a nut allergy, he was having painful reactions to various foods, so he prayed to "god" to help him. When his young prayers went unanswered, he told his mother he was now an atheist, since god can't exist if it wouldn't help him.

Smart kid, or a very sh***y deity of course. Either way he (my grandson) made me smile, and not for the first time.

I never said a word...:cool: Since I have always thought it would be wrong to proselytise children.
Click to expand...
Or he has a very limited view and understanding of a god and instead views god like a pinãta.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Xavier Graham SA said:
www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.
Click to expand...

Which verse says that apostates are Christians make the profession of faith but are not genuine?
 
paradox

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
firedragon said:
Which verse says that apostates are Christians make the profession of faith but are not genuine?
Click to expand...
His interpretation of 1 John 2:19 is false, the context of this verse is about antichrist, not apostate:
1 John 2:18
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
paradox said:
Sure, I didn't mean to decry OP.
But there are no flavors of apostates.
The definition of apostasy is undoubtedly clear.
Click to expand...

I agree with you paradox. And of course you didnt "decry OP". I know what you mean by it, but I dont know what "decry OP" means. ;)

Nevertheless, the word "apostat" in the Greek New Testament is used for "stood off" or "turn away". As an example, in acts 21:21, prior to the council of Nicaea event, the disciples of Jesus speaks to Paul accusing him of influencing people to "turn away" from Moses. That is not taken as "apostasy" as we understand today. They dont accuse him of making people leave Christianity altogether. When we read any book in English we lose the essence of what it really says. If the English translator direct translated the Greek word apostat as apostate, it would turn the whole understanding upside down.

The OP is way too simplistic. I dont mean to insult anyone.
 
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