Apostasy and eternal salvation. A question

[an anarchist]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

 

[Viker]

When I was a child I wanted to believe and really felt I believed. When I prayed I was usually praising and/or begging and not asking for toys. How much does a tormented child have to beg?

I suppose I am just an apostate, never believed and asked wrong.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

Cognitive dissonance is a terrible state of mind to be in.
Whatever path you think is right, take it easy, and don't be too hard on yourself.
And when you feel nothing makes sense anymore, just keep it as simple as possible: Just be, and accept whatever you're experiencing without trying to draw conclusions or trying to resist or embrace it, just be. In time you'll get your peace of mind back.
I don't know if this is too vague, but this way of thinking helps me a great deal to keep my head on my shoulders.

 

[sun rise]

I don't believe there's anything wrong with being an apostate. And to me that does not mean that someone did not believe at one point. Someone who is not truly a strong believer can be very threatened by someone who changes her mind about a faith. And that can cause a strong condemnation which can often be a denial that the condemner has the same questions.

 

[questfortruth]

views in my opinion.

My opinion on the problem of choice and salvation raised in the film Matrix is here:
On Calvinism and Freedom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Does that mean I never believed?

No. It's presumptuous rubbish to say we never believed.

Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?

Yup. And eating that vomit was one of the best damn dishes I've ever had, and wallowing in that mire better than any shower.

 

[blü 2]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

My confident view is that when you die you'll be no worse off than anyone else who's died. No better off either, but certainly no worse.

 

[Brickjectivity]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

At this point you demonstrate the power of conscience which belief once obscured. You already know yourself, but you must get used to the idea of knowing yourself as you and not as someone watched 24x7 by God. Now you will feel the watching of your own conscience. You have not, overnight, become a pillaging murderer or hopeless rage warrior.

You will find that Statistics have not changed. You can still sleep at night with about the same chance of dying or living by morning. You are not any more or less likely to be struck by lightning.

It is true that the morals you grew up with will continue to be part of your thoughts. The taboos will be with you.

Also, apostasy should only be possible if you act as a false apostle, so there is that. If that is truly the case that you have acted as a false apostle then your renunciation ought in my opinion to be public in some way. -- but I don't think you need to go around announcing it to all of your previous companions. In my opinion there's no real ethical point in doing it. People generally do not listen anyway. I also don't think you should risk your life or get a big tattoo over it or trash all of your friends, either. Let people stay on your social media.

I am no apostate and have never left Christ or God. I have grown and understand things better.

Gotquestions just says whatever crap. They are false apostles if there be such a thing.

 

[ChristineM]

Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?

Yes. Even when i left the church i believed in and loved god, for a whilem

 

[Audie]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

I never did believe so my comment is on
the flip side - people who became atheist,
so they say, but then went back to the
Church, like as not to tell all about it.

They never were atheist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

This attitude of "if you ever leave, then you were never saved and never had 'true' faith in Christ" should be absolutely terrifying to sincere Christians who approach the issue honestly.

I mean, there's no shortage of people who sincerely, devoutly believed they had true faith and were saved who ended up as apostates. If they thought they were saved but were mistaken, how can any other Christian be sure that their own sincere faith is the "right" sort of faith that will ensure salvation?

They can't rely on the sincerity of their convictions, because those apostates had sincere - mistaken, but sincere - convictions, too.

This "if you leave, you never really had saving grace" stuff should be an complete mind**** for any Christan who actually believes it if they think about it for more than 10 seconds.

 

[Psalm23]

This attitude of "if you ever leave, then you were never saved and never had 'true' faith in Christ" should be absolutely terrifying to sincere Christians who approach the issue honestly.

I mean, there's no shortage of people who sincerely, devoutly believed they had true faith and were saved who ended up as apostates. If they thought they were saved but were mistaken, how can any other Christian be sure that their own sincere faith is the "right" sort of faith that will ensure salvation?

They can't rely on the sincerity of their convictions, because those apostates had sincere - mistaken, but sincere - convictions, too.

This "if you leave, you never really had saving grace" stuff should be an complete mind**** for any Christan who actually believes it if they think about it for more than 10 seconds.

I have had this same questioning about it. If people who leave never believed, how can you know if you believe.

 

[Psalm23]

It isn't anyone's place to say you never believed. You know yourself and your thoughts and beliefs then and now. To suggest someone never believed after the person states " I believed but walked away", that is calling the person a liar. It is also a very arrogant thing to say to someone.

 

[Brian2]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

I think it is hard to maintain a faith in Jesus these days with what I call all the false information spread around about the Bible. I have found at times that it requires some stubbornness to remain a believer. From the pov of faith that would mean that I am grateful that the Lord has kept me in the faith. I want to remain a believer, especially at this stage of my life when, as the song goes, I'm almost home, but it is a struggle at times and believing is the work that Jesus has given us to do.
John 6:28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

It is this faith that leads to all the other works the Lord gives us to do along the way.
John in 1John 2:19 is no doubt speaking of specific people leaving what was definitely the true Church.
Certainly these days leaving one denomination for another or for even none would not be the same imo.
Leaving faith in Jesus is no doubt a different question but I cannot say how God might judge someone who does that (assuming the gospel is correct).
No doubt some would say that you have to go your own way and who knows, maybe for you it is part of what God wants at the moment.
I can see the reasoning of people who say "once saved always saved" but I don't know.
I must admit that there have been times when I have felt stuck where I was and in what I believe and that an answer would be to rid myself of this belief. I started reading the anti Christianity stuff more intently and could no doubt have ended up leaving the faith.
When I started coming onto the forums someone warned me that it was a dangerous place for someone's faith, and it is, but my attitude was that it did not matter, and if I lost my faith because of what I found out, so be it, esp if what I was finding out was true.
I hope your stubbornness turns around and becomes stubbornness for the faith. I know there are questions I have had which I still have no full answers for and have to go in the too hard basket for now.
It is an interesting thing to do to follow the evidence however but much of the so called evidence is not true, and you can see and know where it will lead you, even if you don't know the full story of where you might end up.
Wherever it ends up, Jesus will always welcome you back and understands your plight.

 

[Ella S.]

Of course you believed and so have many apostates.

I wish I hadn't. I wish I could pretend, like believers do, that I was never really one of them. To be quite honest, I am disappointed in myself for going along with them for so long.

Unfortunately, the reality of the matter is that I did believe. Sure, I always had my doubts and questions, but I always thought there were answers for them. I can't afford the luxury of being dishonest about what I used to think and you shouldn't let other people gaslight you into thinking they have a better understanding of your mind than you do.

 

[paradox]

Apostasy means "apostasy from God", "thrown away from God".

One example is a blasphemy of holly ghost.
Another example is to reject God or salvation by your own will, fully aware.

You can't be apostate just a little or a little bit more, either you are or you're not.

 

[nPeace]

www.gotquestions.org is a site with Americanized Protestant views in my opinion.
www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html
From site
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received him as savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out with us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not tru believers, or never were.
I’m going full apostate. I renunciate my faith in Jesus Christ. I will no longer serve Him and will work on not believing Him and fearing Him.
It feels like a break up, leaving God. It’s hard to do. Hard to move forward without my partner.
I believe I believed ever so earnestly in God and Jesus Christ. My whole life. I’ve dedicated my life to God. Now I’m moving forward without Him. Does that mean I never believed?
Christian apostates, did you ever believe in God?
Christians, do you believe that apostates never had a genuine faith in Jesus Christ? Do you believe in eternal salvation? In my church, we were taught once saved, always saved. So what about the apostate? Are they still saved, in your view? What about me? I was so sure of my salvation and belief, and I’m struggling still to put away belief in Jesus Christ. But I want to move forward without Him.
Part of me still believes He’s real, but if I allow myself to entertain the idea that I could be wrong as a Christian, I find myself believing Christianity is wrong. Maybe I’m just too stubborn to turn back.

You used a very good scripture, to make application.

What John is saying, is that the motive was not pure, or genuine.
For example, a person may convince themselves that they love someone even though the love is not there - in other words, they don't have the feelings that go with real, or genuine love, but they have a motive. Whether the motive may be to satisfy a lust, ego, or something else.

There are persons who get involved in religios organization for various reasons (motive), but they are not in it - in heart.
Eventually, it becomes manifest.

However, your case may (or may not be), be different. I don't know. God knows.
There are persons who want to serve God, because the evidence is there that everyone can see, God is. However, becase they have not yet found the truth, or are not yet ready to accept it, they may straddle the fence, and jump over to one side, thinking that it's easy to go from one side to the other... until they are ready to commit.... if they do.

Is this your case? I don't know. God knows.
The point John is making, is that it is impossible for anyone to get life from God, if their motive is not right - in other words, if they don't have the right heart.
The reason is, God searches the heart, and draws to himself, those with honest, humble hearts. Haggai 2:7; John 6:44

Of course, it's our choice. God leaves it up to us, to determine within, what we want. If we decide to leave, he allows us that freedom, but tells us why its better to accept his invitation. Isaiah 48:18; Matthew 23:37

 

[Audie]

Apostasy means "apostasy from God", "thrown away from God".

One example is a blasphemy of holly ghost.
Another example is to reject God or salvation by your own will, fully aware.

You can't be apostate just a little or a little bit more, either you are or you're not.

I wonder why religious people are such binary thinkers.

 

[an anarchist]

When I started coming onto the forums someone warned me that it was a dangerous place for someone's faith,

Aye, this site has definitely helped lead me away from Christianity
Just the exposure to refutations and arguments against Christianity that I have seen on the forums have influenced me. But I joined this site with an open mind, and this is where it led me. Good thing or a bad thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’m unsure. I would have never imagined I’d leave Christianity when I first joined this site. That’s not to say that the forums have been my only influence, I obviously have my own life happening concurrently with books and events leading me to the decision.

 

[paradox]

I wonder why religious people are such binary thinkers.

See wikipedia for example, I didn't made this up myself:
Apostasy - Wikipedia