Thief
Rogue Theologian
so....a point out of context is a trump point?The point of the story is not my point. Please see post #1
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so....a point out of context is a trump point?The point of the story is not my point. Please see post #1
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If the point of Jesus' simile has been confused it isn't my doing, but that of those who evidently can't stand the implication of my OP: what Jesus said was wrong, and are driven to all kinds of inane apologetics to discredit it.maybe He was talking to people who might not know .....anyway
way confuse the actual point?
The sense of the literature isThe point of the story is not my point. Please see post #1
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You're kidding, right?so....a point out of context is a trump point?
From the OP.The sense of the literature is
Was Jesus Wrong? Is the Mustard Seed Really Smallest?
to paraphrase:
First, in order to interpret the Bible literally we must pay special attention to what is known as form or genre.
Furthermore, when Jesus asks, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like?” (Mark 4:30, emphasis added) we should immediately be alerted to the fact that Jesus is about to use an extended simile (parable)
Finally, while the One who caused the universe to leap into existence (another figure of speech) by simple speaking would obviously know that an orchid seed is smaller than a mustard seed, an orchid seed would have been profoundly inept for the purpose of the parable. Jesus used the smallest seed familiar to a Palestinian farmer
The 'explanation' is your missing the forest for the trees. Ludicrously so. (And I think you know it too).Did I take your explanation away from you? Guess so. Sorry (only kind of)
You say it's rubbish, probably based on the notion that his reference to the earth there was ubiquitous('less than all the seeds that be in the earth'). But there are certain instances where 'earth' refers apparently to the area of which you speak(e.g. Isaiah 51:16, Jeremiah 6:22, Jeremiah 25:11-13;29-31, Ezekiel 7:2, Ezekiel 20:15-16). Also relevant is whether those other seed groups(e.g. orchid) would have been classified as farming seeds(Leviticus 11:37-38).I'm talking about a rational explanation here, not some rubbish that Jesus was only talking about seeds from plants in the area
The 'explanation' is your missing the forest for the trees. Ludicrously so. (And I think you know it too).
Not that I hope to actually talk to someone who thinks predefining 'reason' to mean "ignore all context and agree with me" is conductive to discussion.
If the point of Jesus' simile has been confused it isn't my doing, but that of those who evidently can't stand the implication of my OP: what Jesus said was wrong, and are driven to all kinds of inane apologetics to discredit it.
What's been most enlightening, and disappointing, is how these attempts highlight the fact that many members lack a reasonable understanding of the structure of the English language and how it works.
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well I can't do AramaicIf the point of Jesus' simile has been confused it isn't my doing, but that of those who evidently can't stand the implication of my OP: what Jesus said was wrong, and are driven to all kinds of inane apologetics to discredit it.
What's been most enlightening, and disappointing, is how these attempts highlight the fact that many members lack a reasonable understanding of the structure of the English language and how it works.
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Yes, so many don't understand things like hyperboles, metaphors, and such. So someone trying to make an "as-if" statement must be scientifically precise in order for the statement to have true meaning? This is a ridiculous, and myopic vision. Even if I were to say this same thing as Jesus did, it would still convey truth even though in the technical sense of the word there are smaller seed out there. Being scientific was not his point.What's been most enlightening, and disappointing, is how these attempts highlight the fact that many members lack a reasonable understanding of the structure of the English language and how it works.
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Jesus doesn't understand that farmers shouldn't be so dumb as to sow seeds just any old place. The farmer deserves a poor harvest if they act like that.Matthew 13:3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9 He who has ears, [c]let him hear.”
Jesus is saying he doesn't know how seeds work.Mark 4:26 And He was saying, “The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; 27 and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know. 28 The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head. 29 But when the crop permits, he immediately [g]puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”
I read your OP. I'm not surprised you're not open to considering anyone else's interpretation but your own.Evidently neither of you read all of my OP, particularly where I said,
" . . .I'm talking about a rational explanation here, not some rubbish that Jesus was only talking about seeds from plants in the area,"
meaning, I'm not about to entertain any such an explanation.
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There is no direct mention of "the smallest seed of all the seeds in the world", OR "the smallest seeds of all the seeds in the scenario (the man's field.)"Certainly. I'm serious. Presuming the scriptures are divinely inspired, god used those words and terms that best gets his message across. If some other word or term would have better done the job he would have used it. AND assuming that god is all-knowing there is no reason to suspect he mistakenly used the wrong words or terms. Therefore, when Jesus says "Though it is the smallest of all seeds,. . . . " That's what he means: Of all the seeds in the world that of the mustard plant is the smallest. HOWEVER! we know this isn't true. Jesus made a mistake in saying so. So my question is, Anyone care to explain this mistake? Could it be that god was wrong in putting these words in Jesus' mouth as he inspired the writers of the Matthew and Mark to write this verse? Or did Jesus actually utter these erroneous words?
I think you're cutting the Carpenter a low blow....Jesus doesn't understand that farmers shouldn't be so dumb as to sow seeds just any old place. The farmer deserves a poor harvest if they act like that.
Jesus is saying he doesn't know how seeds work.
It's not just gardening. Jesus clearly has little knowledge about lots of things, as his parables can attest to. The parables only work if you just accept the "explanations" provided and don't actually think about it much.
Christ says that the Jews didn't have the ears (of spirit) to understand him. They used their physical ears (to create the vision of God).he who has ears let him hear. Most cant hear because they have elevated the mind, GREEK thinking. The mind has become GOD
“Mustard bushes reach an average mature height of between 6 and 20 feet with a 20-foot spread, although exceptional plants can reach 30 feet tall under ideal conditions.”
What Is the Size of a Mustard Bush?
If you saw this while driving in the country, would you contradict a passenger who called it a tree?
As for an explanation, I'm talking about a rational explanation here, not some rubbish that Jesus was only talking about seeds from plants in the area, or that because he was speaking in a proverbial/parable style he wasn't making a statement of fact.
What's been most enlightening, and disappointing, is how these attempts highlight the fact that many members lack a reasonable understanding of the structure of the English language and how it works.
As for an explanation, I'm talking about a rational explanation here, not some rubbish that Jesus was only talking about seeds from plants in the area, or that because he was speaking in a proverbial/parable style he wasn't making a statement of fact.