Antisemitism

[metis]

The main problem is far left organizations.

Actually it appears you mistook what Sunstone was saying, which involves the fact that the immigration issue has fueled the far right, and it's this element that often smacks of fascist and nativistic tendencies.

 

[CMike]

Actually it appears you mistook what Sunstone was saying, which involves the fact that the immigration issue has fueled the far right, and it's this element that often smacks of fascist and nativistic tendencies.

Most of the hatred toward jews comes from the arab terrorist supporters crowd which is the left.

 

[metis]

Most of the hatred toward jews comes from the arab terrorist supporters crowd which is the left.

Yes, but Sunstone previously had stated this: "Ymir made the point that Muslim immigration into Europe might have something to do with it. I agree it probably does. Ironically, the rise of far right groups is often linked to Muslim immigration."

He is correct. Obviously you were looking at what he said differently, but I don't think that was his approach because he mentioned the Arab immigration as as a catalyst for the right-wing elements that are stronger now in Europe.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There's probably a couple of things going on here. One, although anti-semitism has a history of being a relatively constant issue, it does go through cycles of severity. When people are less content with their own lives, they do tend to find someone else to serve as the cause of their discontent. The Jewish people, particularly in Europe, tend to repeatedly serve this role.

And secondly, the Muslim population of Europe has skyrocketed in recent decades - a population which is well known to generally harbor significant anti-Jewish attitudes.

 

[metis]

There's probably a couple of things going on here. One, although anti-semitism has a history of being a relatively constant issue, it does go through cycles of severity. When people are less content with their own lives, they do tend to find someone else to serve as the cause of their discontent. The Jewish people, particularly in Europe, tend to repeatedly serve this role.

And secondly, the Muslim population of Europe has skyrocketed in recent decades - a population which is well known to generally harbor significant anti-Jewish attitudes.

I have relatives (Christians) in Malmo, Sweden, and what you wrote above is pretty much what they're saying as well. However, both the local and the national government has been slow to react, almost seemingly trying to "bury it", if you know what I mean.

 

[Yerda]

Jaiket, any ideas about what might be causing the resurgence of antisemitism?

I imagine the obvious answers must have some truth in them. Economic uncertainty, immigration, the rise of the far right, the stupidity of the left, etc. Many of these people aren't immigrants though. They are Europeans living where their ancestors lived but feel hostility because they are Jewish.

Why people appear to be falling for nonsense like "Jews have too much control of the media" in greater numbers leaves me perplexed.

 

[Yerda]

Most of the hatred toward jews comes from the arab terrorist supporters crowd which is the left.

Are you involved in "the left"?

I was for a few years, and still participate in things lefties gravitate towards. In all the marches, demos, campaigns, elections, pickets, meetings, hustings, arguments, and infights I've been involved in I have only ever heard one person say anything deliberately antisemitic. A few have repeated stupid things they've heard or read.

 

[Yerda]

I knew exactly how this thread would turn out just by looking at the title.

What do you think about the issue?

 

[Sunstone]

I imagine the obvious answers must have some truth in them. Economic uncertainty, immigration, the rise of the far right, the stupidity of the left, etc. Many of these people aren't immigrants though. They are Europeans living where their ancestors lived but feel hostility because they are Jewish.

Why people appear to be falling for nonsense like "Jews have too much control of the media" in greater numbers leaves me perplexed.

Does tradition still play much of a role in it? As I understand it, it's traditional in Europe (and also to some extent in America) to blame the Jews for just about everything that goes wrong. And traditions tend to die hard.

 

[Yerda]

Does tradition still play much of a role in it? As I understand it, it's traditional in Europe (and also to some extent in America) to blame the Jews for just about everything that goes wrong. And traditions tend to die hard.

Being an eternal minority Jews are a permanently convenient target, as Kilgore Trout suggested.

 

[Flankerl]

What do you think about the issue?

The rise of antisemitism can be fairly easy attributed to the muslim immigrants in western and northern Europe. Though the governments would never ever admit it as it ruins the image of multiculturalism and that Europe can work out like the USA or Canada.
The east is a bit different as it never really changed. They were just busy putting their people into camps for believing that people should have rights.

On top of that you have Neo-Nazis. Well not much you can do about them. They exist but here(Germany) for example they are a minority.

 

[columbus]

It is the problem of crying 'wolf' too often. Jewish politicians do it all of the time, "Don't agree with Jewish settlements, then you are anti-Semitic"

CMike makes it quite obvious.

It's the same thing.

It's more acceptable for antisemites to say they are anti Zionist.

People like him refuse to see the difference between having a problem with Jews and having a problem with Israel.

I'm not a good person to ask, in the sense that I don't care what anybody believes or says, only what they do. I don't much care if someone is Jewish, wasp, black, Japanese, or anything. I have trouble understanding why anyone else would either.

But when.it comes to behaviour, that I get really judgemental about. Whether it is an Arizonan sheriff or an Ohioan trans.

When I said I like Jewish people I meant it. Judaism is the least cultish of the abrahamic religions. Most of the Jews I know, including my favorite brother-in-law, are extremely thoughtful and articulate and moral people. I don't actually know a Jewish person, that I know is Jewish, that I don't like.

So when someone tells me that I am a bigot because I don't want to pay for the support of israel then I will assume that they prefer to live in an "antisemitic" world. Because they are choosing it.

Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But when.it comes to behaviour, that I get really judgemental about. Whether it is an Arizonan sheriff or an Ohioan trans.

Perhaps you should be more discerning if your judgment is applicable and appropriate.

 

[Bunyip]

I do not mean to offend any Jewish members, but I do think that the label of antisemite is applied rather too broadly. I have seen people labelled as antisemite for arguing for any kind of critique of Israeli actions whatsoever. Simply referring to certain territories as being illegally occupied can be sufficient to label a person as anti semitic.

Sadly 'anti-semite' is being used to refer to all and any non zionist.

 

[columbus]

Perhaps you should be more discerning if your judgment is applicable and appropriate.

says the guy advocating military strikes halfway round the globe

Tom

 

[Desert Snake]

I do not mean to offend any Jewish members, but I do think that the label of antisemite is applied rather too broadly. I have seen people labelled as antisemite for arguing for any kind of critique of Israeli actions whatsoever. Simply referring to certain territories as being illegally occupied can be sufficient to label a person as anti semitic.

Sadly 'anti-semite' is being used to refer to all and any non zionist.

I think it's more complicated than that. The Jewish people are not united politically or even to an extent religiously, but if someone really doesn't like Jews, they always go to anti-Israel rhetoric. Which doesn't make sense, because there are many non-Zionist Jews.........hmmmmmmmmmmmm Now that's a bit odd, huh? Because if the anti-Israel non-Jewish crowd were actually just anti-Zionism, why do they have a problem with non-Zionist Jews?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

says the guy advocating military strikes halfway round the globe

No, I didn't. Enjoy your wrong assumptions about people. They apparently make your world feel secure.

 

[Bunyip]

I think it's more complicated than that. The Jewish people are not united politically or even to an extent religiously, but if someone really doesn't like Jews, they always go to anti-Israel rhetoric. Which doesn't make sense, because there are many non-Zionist Jews.........hmmmmmmmmmmmm Now that's a bit odd, huh? Because if the anti-Israel non-Jewish crowd were actually just anti-Zionism, why do they have a problem with non-Zionist Jews?

As usual you have posted a sort of stream of thought, without bothering to resolve it into a legible point.

You ask: If the anti Israel non Jewish crowd were actually anti zionism, why do they have a problem with non zionist Jews?

I'm not anti Israel, and do not have a problem with non Zionist Jews, nor with Zionist Jews for that matter - although I hold differing views.

 

[Desert Snake]

As usual you have posted a sort of stream of thought, without bothering to resolve it into a legible point.

No, it's very clear. What you posted was illegible.

 

[Quagmire]

I think it's more complicated than that. The Jewish people are not united politically or even to an extent religiously, but if someone really doesn't like Jews, they always go to anti-Israel rhetoric. Which doesn't make sense, because there are many non-Zionist Jews.........hmmmmmmmmmmmm Now that's a bit odd, huh? Because if the anti-Israel non-Jewish crowd were actually just anti-Zionism, why do they have a problem with non-Zionist Jews?

It doesn't make sense. The problem is, to a bigot, bigotry doesn't have to.