Anti-trans bill passes in Kentucky

[Viker]

Almost forgot! Our governor vetoed the bill yesterday!

 

[InChrist]

It is.

Sex is biological. Gender is a social construct.

"Sex refers to a set of biological attributes in humans and animals. It is primarily associated with physical and physiological features including chromosomes, gene expression, hormone levels and function, and reproductive/sexual anatomy. Sex is usually categorized as female or male but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed.

Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people. It influences how people perceive themselves and each other, how they act and interact, and the distribution of power and resources in society. Gender identity is not confined to a binary (girl/woman, boy/man) nor is it static; it exists along a continuum and can change over time. There is considerable diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience and express gender through the roles they take on, the expectations placed on them, relations with others and the complex ways that gender is institutionalized in society."

What is gender? What is sex? - CIHR

...

cihr-irsc.gc.ca

It doesn't demonstrate that though and you didn't even address my response.

Okay, I agree … “There is considerable diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience and express gender through the roles they take on…”.

So why are so many young people being pushed to attempt the alteration of their biological physical sex with powerful hormones which have long term detrimental side effects and the surgical removal of healthy body parts? Why not encourage people to simply be comfortable expressing their interests and roles, irregardless of societal constructs and without the push to change one’s body?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Almost forgot! Our governor vetoed the bill yesterday!

It says a lot, none of it good, when Kentucky is doing better than many other states. It's even upstaging Indiana.
So, thanks a lot, Kentucky. You broke one of the Seals of the 'Murican 'Pocalypse.

 

[fantome profane]

So why are so many young people being pushed …

Any evidence of anyone being “pushed”?

 

[InChrist]

Any evidence of anyone being “pushed”?

I’d say there is a pretty intense push when kids are exposed to transgenderism in schools from a young age, given assignments to decide what gender they are, it’s glamorized as a way of validating insecurity issues on social media, and when…


…”Parents are told that puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones may be the only way to prevent their children from committing suicide.

Never mind that the best studies of gender dysphoria show that between 80 and 95 percent of children who express a discordant gender identity will come to identify with their bodily sex if natural development is allowed to proceed.

Never mind that “transitioning” treatment has not been shown to reduce the extraordinarily high rate of suicide attempts among people who identify as transgender (41 percent, compared with 4.6 percent of the general population).

Never mind that people who have had transition surgery are 19 times more likely to die by suicide.”

Transgender Ideology Hurts Kids

Properly understanding sex, gender, gender identity, and gender dysphoria will continue to be pressing concerns in 2018. A proper understanding is a prerequisite for properly forming people in the truth and properly ministering to people in need. As new gender ideologies are promoted throughout...

www.heritage.org

 

[fantome profane]

I’d say there is a pretty intense push when kids are exposed to transgenderism in schools from a young age, given assignments to decide what gender they are, it’s glamorized as a way of validating insecurity issues on social media, and when…


…”Parents are told that puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones may be the only way to prevent their children from committing suicide.

Never mind that the best studies of gender dysphoria show that between 80 and 95 percent of children who express a discordant gender identity will come to identify with their bodily sex if natural development is allowed to proceed.

Never mind that “transitioning” treatment has not been shown to reduce the extraordinarily high rate of suicide attempts among people who identify as transgender (41 percent, compared with 4.6 percent of the general population).

Never mind that people who have had transition surgery are 19 times more likely to die by suicide.”

Transgender Ideology Hurts Kids

Properly understanding sex, gender, gender identity, and gender dysphoria will continue to be pressing concerns in 2018. A proper understanding is a prerequisite for properly forming people in the truth and properly ministering to people in need. As new gender ideologies are promoted throughout...

www.heritage.org

An opinion piece from the heritage center is not very persuasive.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Never mind that people who have had transition surgery are 19 times more likely to die by suicide.”

How so typical transphobe to point that out without details of how that's way lowef than before transitioning and that it has been found timr and time again that bigotry and discrimination is the biggest driver of suicide.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I’d say there is a pretty intense push when kids are exposed to transgenderism in schools from a young age, given assignments to decide what gender they are, it’s glamorized as a way of validating insecurity issues on social media, and when…


…”Parents are told that puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones may be the only way to prevent their children from committing suicide.

Never mind that the best studies of gender dysphoria show that between 80 and 95 percent of children who express a discordant gender identity will come to identify with their bodily sex if natural development is allowed to proceed.

Never mind that “transitioning” treatment has not been shown to reduce the extraordinarily high rate of suicide attempts among people who identify as transgender (41 percent, compared with 4.6 percent of the general population).

Never mind that people who have had transition surgery are 19 times more likely to die by suicide.”

Transgender Ideology Hurts Kids

Properly understanding sex, gender, gender identity, and gender dysphoria will continue to be pressing concerns in 2018. A proper understanding is a prerequisite for properly forming people in the truth and properly ministering to people in need. As new gender ideologies are promoted throughout...

www.heritage.org

Saying transgenderism is about as silly as saying homosexualism. And like being around gay people doesn't make you gay, being around trans people doesn't make you trans. You are correct though that feeling gender dysphoria doesn't make you trans, and so kids who experience it should be supported with counseling and evaluation by health professionals to determine cause and severity.

They should not be ignored by unsupportive bible thumpers who just want to pretend transgender people don't exist or they are 'a product of Satan' of all the backwater 'schizophrenia is just demon possession' nonsense.

Transition does, in fact, reduce suicides: Gender-Affirming Care Linked To Less Depression, Lower Suicide Risk For Trans Youth

But transitioning isn't the end of the woes for transgender people, especially if they don't have consistent healthcare access or supportive friends and family. And they're constantly worried about things like whether going to the bathroom is going to throw up a fuss, panic defense, new anti-trans laws designed to separate them from supportive families or hide their status.

 

[crossfire]

Okay, I agree … “There is considerable diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience and express gender through the roles they take on…”.

So why are so many young people being pushed to attempt the alteration of their biological physical sex with powerful hormones which have long term detrimental side effects and the surgical removal of healthy body parts? Why not encourage people to simply be comfortable expressing their interests and roles, irregardless of societal constructs and without the push to change one’s body?

How do you feel about young women wanting breast reduction operations without the whole transgender package? One out of eight women will develop breast cancer during their lifetime. A breast reduction or mastectomy will greatly reduce the risk for cancer in the future.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sex is biological. Gender is a social construct.

I think folks who want to limit exposure to folks who don't fit the black and white model of sex and gender instinctively know gender is a social construct since they are so concerned about it in the public sphere.

If it's not socially constructed, then why would they need to worry about people being socially exposed to it? If it's biological, then it shouldn't be something to be concerned about, since a biological male would magically repel all feminine pronouns and accoutrements with the sheer force of his testicles.

I'm not sure that gender is entirely socially constructed, since there's some evidence of biologically based expressions of gender, in addition to the fact that a lot of people feel an internal sense of what their gender identity is and identify with one gender or another despite social pressure to the contrary. Of course, evidence clearly demonstrates that much of gender is socially constructed and variable by culture. What I sometimes wonder is how much of it is rooted in biology and how much in society or culture.

I started a thread about this earlier because I find the subject both complex and deeply interesting:

The Social and Biological Influences on Gender

Lately, I have been reading more about the subject of the biological and social influences on gender identity and gendered expressions. I'm currently of the belief that gender is not entirely a social construct but also not entirely determined by biology. There is evidence suggesting a...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don’t think it’s legitimate, nor scientifically accurate to say sex and gender are different.

The vast majority of scientific institutions worldwide agree that sex and gender are different. From a scientific and medical standpoint, it is both legitimate and accurate. For example:

What Do We Mean By Sex and Gender?

As we pursue our work at Women's Health Research at Yale, it is particularly important to use language that captures the different concepts of sex and gender so

medicine.yale.edu

What is gender? What is sex? - CIHR

...

cihr-irsc.gc.ca

Gender and health

Gender and health

www.who.int

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not sure that gender is entirely socially constructed, since there's some evidence of biologically based expressions of gender, in addition to the fact that a lot of people feel an internal sense of what their gender identity is and identify with one gender or another despite social pressure to the contrary. Of course, evidence clearly demonstrates that much of gender is socially constructed and variable by culture. What I sometimes wonder is how much of it is rooted in biology and how much in society or culture.

I started a thread about this earlier because I find the subject both complex and deeply interesting:

The Social and Biological Influences on Gender

Lately, I have been reading more about the subject of the biological and social influences on gender identity and gendered expressions. I'm currently of the belief that gender is not entirely a social construct but also not entirely determined by biology. There is evidence suggesting a...

www.religiousforums.com

There was an entire section on this in one of my psychology textbooks, back in the day (like 20 years ago). I was surprised to find that a lot of the things we think of as biological sex differences actually turn out to be socially reinforced constructs. But that is all I will say on it for now because I don't remember much more than that, and it could be outdated by now.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Okay, I agree … “There is considerable diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience and express gender through the roles they take on…”.

So why are so many young people being pushed to attempt the alteration of their biological physical sex with powerful hormones which have long term detrimental side effects and the surgical removal of healthy body parts?

"So many" are not.

Why not encourage people to simply be comfortable expressing their interests and roles, irregardless of societal constructs and without the push to change one’s body?

How about instead of imposing what we want onto people, we leave it up to them and the experts to determine the best course of action for themselves in their own lives?

Also, it's not so easy to just ignore societal constructs, norms, traditions, etc.. I mean, look how everybody (including yourself) is getting all worked up over this stuff as though kids are cutting off body parts everywhere all across the country at any given moment.

 

[metis]

So why are so many young people being pushed to attempt the alteration of their biological physical sex with powerful hormones which have long term detrimental side effects and the surgical removal of healthy body parts?

They are not detrimental and have been used for a long time now for various reasons. Our oldest daughter is now on them because of her breast cancer.

Teens not put on them under the circumstances being discussed here have a higher suicide rate than those who are refused such treatment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure that gender is entirely socially constructed, since there's some evidence of biologically based expressions of gender, in addition to the fact that a lot of people feel an internal sense of what their gender identity is and identify with one gender or another despite social pressure to the contrary. Of course, evidence clearly demonstrates that much of gender is socially constructed and variable by culture. What I sometimes wonder is how much of it is rooted in biology and how much in society or culture.

I started a thread about this earlier because I find the subject both complex and deeply interesting:

The Social and Biological Influences on Gender

Lately, I have been reading more about the subject of the biological and social influences on gender identity and gendered expressions. I'm currently of the belief that gender is not entirely a social construct but also not entirely determined by biology. There is evidence suggesting a...

www.religiousforums.com

Yup. I don't think we'd exist if that weren't the case. We also know testosterone amd estrogen have different psychological effects on people.
And some things we see rather uniformly across cultures and time.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm not sure that gender is entirely socially constructed, since there's some evidence of biologically based expressions of gender, in addition to the fact that a lot of people feel an internal sense of what their gender identity is and identify with one gender or another despite social pressure to the contrary. Of course, evidence clearly demonstrates that much of gender is socially constructed and variable by culture. What I sometimes wonder is how much of it is rooted in biology and how much in society or culture.

I started a thread about this earlier because I find the subject both complex and deeply interesting:

The Social and Biological Influences on Gender

Lately, I have been reading more about the subject of the biological and social influences on gender identity and gendered expressions. I'm currently of the belief that gender is not entirely a social construct but also not entirely determined by biology. There is evidence suggesting a...

www.religiousforums.com

I think the biggest problem with discussing gender as 'nature vs nurture' is that there is not and has never been a clear divisible line between the two. Nature effects nurture and nurture effects nature all the time. And most things in biology, including psychology, endocrinology and even much of genetics (re: gene switch and epigenetics) is not innate or set from birth. Environment impacts biology all the time at most every level.

So of course gender has both social and biological implications, because those two things have considerable overlap.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think the biggest problem with discussing gender as 'nature vs nurture' is that there is not and has never been a clear divisible line between the two. Nature effects nurture and nurture effects nature all the time. And most things in biology, including psychology, endocrinology and even genetics is not innate or set from birth. Environment impacts biology all the time at most every level.

So of course gender has both social and biological implications, because those two things have considerable overlap.

There's strong evidence of innate human behaviors that are not limited to one culture or society, but I agree both biology and culture affect each other. I would suspect that for society to affect innate biological tendencies, such a change would happen over multiple generations or an even longer time frame.

I have no problem with the notion that gender has some biological components. My problem is when some people try to segue from this into support for biological determinism and imposition of gender roles, usually by using an appeal to nature as the basis for their position.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So why are so many young people being pushed to

In the real world they aren't. And there's the reality you can't make some one trans.
And why in the hell would they push people to just go and get treated for a condition tbey don't have?

 

[Debater Slayer]

In the real world they aren't. And there's the reality you can't make some one trans.
And why in the hell would they push people to just go and get treated for a condition tbey don't have?

They are pushed, but usually against accepting themselves as trans. The pressure still doesn't work to erase trans identity, which should tell people something about how much of a "choice" it is but unfortunately doesn't for too many of them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are pushed, but usually against accepting themselves as trans. The pressure still doesn't work to erase trans identity, which should tell people something about how much of a "choice" it is but unfortunately doesn't for too many of them.

Yup.