Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

[ForeverFaithful]

Here's a video of the speech:

[youtube]ao0k9qDsOvs[/youtube]
Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention - YouTube

DOES THIS MAN HAVE EVEN A REMOTE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY!

Honestly who is he fulling? Any Jew knows that Leviticus is to be read with the Oral Law, and any Christian knows that we are in a new covenant and the Laws of Moses were not perfect (Matt 5:17) and were given due to man's hard hearts (Matt 19:8) Jesus make it clear capital punishment was not an ideal (John 8:7)

Does he have no knowledge of Church tradition? Granted most American Christians believe in Sola Scriptura, but does he not understand the Abolitionists were motivated by their faith, and even yes scripture (Ex 21:16)

One man one woman is made clear in the New Testament (Matt 19) does that mean homosexuals should be treated worse? Well Homosexual activites may be sinful, but what does the Bible say "All have sinned" (Rom 3:23) "If we said we didn't we'd be lieing (1 John 1:8) therefore hate the sin love the sinner is the ONLY Biblical way of looking at any sin.

 

[Me Myself]

Yes, we can take all the exception we want to even referring to a part of the Bible as BS but all the comments taking what he said as calling the entirety of the Bible or even Christians as BS are just factually incorrect.

This.

 

[HerDotness]

DOES THIS MAN HAVE EVEN A REMOTE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY!

Honestly who is he fulling? Any Jew knows that Leviticus is to be read with the Oral Law, and any Christian knows that we are in a new covenant and the Laws of Moses were not perfect (Matt 5:17) and were given due to man's hard hearts (Matt 19:8) Jesus make it clear capital punishment was not an ideal (John 8:7)

Then, why is LEVITICUS on homosexuality the text typically used to show that homosexuality is a horrific sin? You delight in using "imperfect" laws that the New Covenant superseded just because they say what you want said, is that it?

Not much consistency operative here, that's obvious.

 

[Kathryn]

The kids who were offended walked out. That's what ADULTS do when they find a speaker's words/ideas offensive.

Not sure what you mean by this. These were high school students. I don't think it was inappropriate for them to walk out, anymore than it would be inappropriate for students to walk out if a speaker began, for instance, disrespecting the President, or gays, or whatever the hot topic might be.

Looked to me like the majority remained, applauding and cheering because they could overlook the bad costuming for the substance.

Or perhaps because they agreed with him, or simply weren't offended, or didn't have the nerve to get up and walk out, or didn't much care - I'm sure they had all sorts of reasons, some more valid than others, for staying. But it was their RIGHT to stay, and it was the RIGHT of the other students to leave in quiet protest.

The man is RIGHT! Religious people disregard inconvenient passages of the Bible right and left because they know they won't follow them or people have progressed enough to regard things like how much beating is okay for your slave who asked for it as WRONG. Slavery is WRONG. If God was so all-smart, where's the part that says, "Do NOT enslave other people. Slavery is majorly bad and wrong. Don't do it."

Didn't seem to have any trouble stating pretty directly that you shouldn't lust after your neighbor's wife and stuff, did He? No problem saying "No other gods before me" and "Don't kill" and "Don't cheat on your spouse."

So, was He on vacation when the writer set down that stuff about how to treat your slaves? Would it really have been THAT difficult to have whispered to the writer being inspired..."Hey, scratch all that. Slavery is a HUGE no-no"?

Isn't it odd? Hmmmm....?

You know something? I don't believe that Savage is a theologian. His take on religion and the bible is certainly not one that's supported by the doctrines I believe or by many mainstream theologians over the centuries.

But that's even beside the point. Just because something may be true (or have some truthful elements to it), doesn't mean that it's always appropriate to say it. For instance, if I give a speech at the NOW yearly convention, do you think I should get up and say, "Half of all fetuses that are aborted are female. Is there a war on women from the left?" I mean, it's true - and the question is a legitimate one - but is that the best venue? Should I get up in front of a bunch of high school girls during health class and show them pictures of partial birth abortions, dismembered fetuses, or perforated uteruses and tell them that if they choose abortion, they are supporting those who perform such medical procedures?

Though there may be some truth mixed in with the message, the overall message would be considered one-sided, agenda-driven, unnecessarily inflammatory and inappropriate - and wow, I can hear the outcry and all I'm doing is IMAGING the scenario.

 

[Apex]

"People often point out...they can't help it. They can't help with the anti-gay bullying. It says right there in Leviticus. It says right there in Timothy. It says right there in Romans........that being gay is wrong. We can learn to ignore the BS in the Bible about gay people. The same way we have learned to ignore the BS in the Bible about shellfish....."

And it goes on like that. I think it's pretty clear he's talking about literalists.

Ok. I can see your point. Although saying that we "ignore" those parts is still fairly disingenuous. But that can be saved for another thread.

Yes, we can take all the exception we want to even referring to a part of the Bible as BS but all the comments taking what he said as calling the entirety of the Bible or even Christians as BS are just factually incorrect.

Unless, of course, there was more to the whole thing that no one is posting on Youtube. I think if there were someone would have already posted it by now.

Within the context of this speech, this may be true. But I have a feeling he, and others who share his views, honestly view all of religion as BS. For example, a quote from the link I posted at the beginning of this thread, from another famous atheist, talking about the response to the speech in the OP:

They’re still following a ******** book and a ******** religion. And despite the whining of Focus on the Family, Christians deserve to have their faith mocked and belittled, because it is an idea worthy of only mockery and belittlement. And I’m not just talking about the Phelps of the world. I mean the moderate and liberal version of Christianity too.

Note, the emphasis is original. I did not add it.

 

[Me Myself]

DOES THIS MAN HAVE EVEN A REMOTE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY!

He doesn´t need to. He just needs to understand that some texts in the bible (like those saying killing homosexuals is a sacred duty) are wrong. He didn´t say it is wrong to be a christian. He said it is okay to ignore the HATEFUL texts. The same way people ignore the texts about shellfish.


You all think that is bullying? nice... I actually went to religious highschool* and people liked to call me gay around (just for the record, I am not). they all danced surrounding me and ended up the whole class throwing my desk with violence while they danced, and it was all done for the FUN OF IT. Most of them probably didn´t even think I was gay. None had a religious fanatism to it.

And to this day I repent not having taken the biggest one to the floor and broken his arm so the rest understood.


I don´t want to believe the actual hell the actual gays one had when they were actually bullyied BECAUSE of hate, NOT fun. Many of them didn´t want to believe it either. May they rest in Peace, and God show them mercy and love and not what that **************** text dares say God wants for them.

Thse words will NEVER and should NEVER be confused with anything sacred.

edit:*

 

[Me Myself]

Within the context of this speech, this may be true. But I have a feeling he, and others who share his views, honestly view all of religion as BS.

With texts like that in "holy" books, I don´t need to guess why. It really doesn´t matter what he believes, it matters what he said. His cursing and name calling was wrong. The rest,was spot on, and worthy of emphasis.

Note, the emphasis is original. I did not add it.

The IDEA is completely and absolutely worthy of mocking. I´d say contempt more than mocking, because I honestly can´t bring myself to laugh at it.

 

[gnomon]

DOES THIS MAN HAVE EVEN A REMOTE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIANITY!

Honestly who is he fulling? Any Jew knows that Leviticus is to be read with the Oral Law, and any Christian knows that we are in a new covenant and the Laws of Moses were not perfect (Matt 5:17) and were given due to man's hard hearts (Matt 19:8) Jesus make it clear capital punishment was not an ideal (John 8:7)

Does he have no knowledge of Church tradition? Granted most American Christians believe in Sola Scriptura, but does he not understand the Abolitionists were motivated by their faith, and even yes scripture (Ex 21:16)

One man one woman is made clear in the New Testament (Matt 19) does that mean homosexuals should be treated worse? Well Homosexual activites may be sinful, but what does the Bible say "All have sinned" (Rom 3:23) "If we said we didn't we'd be lieing (1 John 1:8) therefore hate the sin love the sinner is the ONLY Biblical way of looking at any sin.

That's not his problem, my problem or your problem.

Tell this to the preachers who tell their flock that homosexuality is nothing but a sinful lifestyle. Tell that to the preachers who petition their flock to go out and vote for marriage amendments. Tell that to the parents who belittle homosexuals in front of their children, teach their kids that homosexuals are deviants and stand by while children are beaten, threatened or even killed because they are different.

Tell it to those who do use the Bible to do harm. There's obviously many of them out there using the scriptures in exactly the way the man described in that video.

Don't tell us. I already know what moderates, non-literalists and many others think about those passages and that they don't adhere to them or justify them to abuse others. And for the most part I don't care about those passages at all.

Tell those who do take the Bible literally and use those passages to justify harming others.

 

[HerDotness]

The kids who were offended walked out. That's what ADULTS do when they find a speaker's words/ideas offensive.

Just what it says, that's what I mean. If an adult finds a speaker offensive, the adult leaves. Rather than mouthing off or catcalling which might have disrupted the speech for those who wished to continue listening, they left.

And yes, I'm sure there were all sorts of reasons why the rest remained. I suggested one possible one--that they were able to see past the inappropriate language and realize the man was RIGHT.

The Bible is WRONG...and it's not going to be very much longer before the bulk of society disregards what the Bible says about homosexuality as we have done for a couple hundred years all its rules about proper treatment of slaves since we figured out that enslaving other people is wrong.

God gave all these other definite commandments...do explain why He somehow neglected to mention that slavery was wrong.

 

[HerDotness]

He doesn´t need to. He just needs to understand that some texts in the bible (like those saying killing homosexuals is a sacred duty) are wrong. He didn´t say it is wrong to be a christian. He said it is okay to ignore the HATEFUL texts. The same way people ignore the texts about shellfish.


You all think that is bullying? nice... I actually went to religious highschool* and people liked to call me gay around (just for the record, I am not). they all danced surrounding me and ended up the whole class throwing my desk with violence while they danced, and it was all done for the FUN OF IT. Most of them probably didn´t even think I was gay. None had a religious fanatism to it.

And to this day I repent not having taken the biggest one to the floor and broken his arm so the rest understood.


I don´t want to believe the actual hell the actual gays one had when they were actually bullyied BECAUSE of hate, NOT fun. Many of them didn´t want to believe it either. May they rest in Peace, and God show them mercy and love and not what that **************** text dares say God wants for them.

Thse words will NEVER and should NEVER be confused with anything sacred.

edit:*

And here, I heartily agree with you, Me Myself. Well said! Very well said.

 

[Kathryn]

Oh, here's more from that speech:


Savage also attacked the Republican Party — and specifically Callista Gingrich, the wife of Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich.
“The Bible says if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father’s doorstep and stoned to death,” he said. “Callista Gingrich still lives.”
His speech was interrupted by students cheering and howling.
“There is no effort to amend state constitutions to make it legal to stone women to death on their wedding nights if they’re not virgins — at least not yet,” Savage said. “We don’t know where the GOP is going these days."


From a conservative gay rights activist:

GOProud Condemns Dan Savage’s Anti-Christian Tirade
Jimmy LaSalvia, GOProud Executive Director – “Dan Savage’s outrageous anti-Christian tirade hurts – not helps – the fight for gay rights in this country.”
(Washington, D.C.) – Today, GOProud – a national organization of gay and straight Americans seeking to promote freedom by supporting free markets, limited government, and a respect for individual rights, condemned a speech given by left wing gay activist Dan Savage. “Dan Savage’s outrageous anti-Christian tirade hurts – not helps – the fight for gay rights in this country,” said Jimmy LaSalvia, GOProud Executive Director. “There is nothing incompatible between being a Christian and believing that all people should be treated equally, and Dan Savage’s attacks on Christianity only fuel those on the extremist fringe who oppose gay rights.”
“Dan Savage should apologize for his comments and should apologize to the high school students in attendance who he called ‘pansy-*****,’” continued LaSalvia. “It is ironic that someone whose claim to fame is fighting bullying would resort to bullying tactics in attacking high school students who were offended by his outrageous remarks.”
“GOProud works with people of faith every single day – gay and straight. We believe strongly that people of faith should be treated with respect,” concluded LaSalvia.
# # #
GOProud is a national organization of gay and straight Americans who seek to promote freedom by supporting free markets, limited government, and a respect for individual rights. We work on the federal level to build strong coalitions of conservative and libertarian activists, organizations and policy makers to advance our shared values and beliefs. 426 C St., NE, Washington, DC 20002. For more information visit our website Home - GOProud, Inc.
GOProud Condemns Dan Savage

 

[Kathryn]

He doesn´t need to. He just needs to understand that some texts in the bible (like those saying killing homosexuals is a sacred duty) are wrong. He didn´t say it is wrong to be a christian. He said it is okay to ignore the HATEFUL texts. The same way people ignore the texts about shellfish.


You all think that is bullying? nice... I actually went to religious highschool* and people liked to call me gay around (just for the record, I am not). they all danced surrounding me and ended up the whole class throwing my desk with violence while they danced, and it was all done for the FUN OF IT. Most of them probably didn´t even think I was gay. None had a religious fanatism to it.

And to this day I repent not having taken the biggest one to the floor and broken his arm so the rest understood.


I don´t want to believe the actual hell the actual gays one had when they were actually bullyied BECAUSE of hate, NOT fun. Many of them didn´t want to believe it either. May they rest in Peace, and God show them mercy and love and not what that **************** text dares say God wants for them.

Thse words will NEVER and should NEVER be confused with anything sacred.

edit:*

So do you think these kids who tormented you were Christians? This does not sound like Christ like behavior to me at all.

 

[gnomon]

Ok. I can see your point. Although saying that we "ignore" those parts is still fairly disingenuous. But that can be saved for another thread.

Within the context of this speech, this may be true. But I have a feeling he, and others who share his views, honestly view all of religion as BS. For example, a quote from the link I posted at the beginning of this thread, from another famous atheist, talking about the response to the speech in the OP:
Note, the emphasis is original. I did not add it.

I think his speech lacked tact. I'll agree with that.

I share his views, in regards to the cherrypicking literalists do, but I definitely don't find all religion to be BS.

My only concern in this thread is the drawing of conclusions where there is evidence lacking for such conclusions. Namely the ones Steve Doocy and others in the media drew. I feel as if they are trying to tack on some negativity to the anti-bullying campaign as a whole but.....there's no proof of that.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem is that not only does it says it is wrong in the eyes of God. It says it diserves death. If it diserves death, how can a little bullying be wrong?

What the Bible "says" is a complicated thing, & beyond me. I observe that many Xians don't read that homosexuality deserves death.
But even if one did read that, it doesn't require that one become a bully. Actions speak louder than words to me....don't bully others = OK...
...bully others = bad. The reasons or excuses for bullying don't matter.

 

[Kathryn]

That's not his problem, my problem or your problem.

Tell this to the preachers who tell their flock that homosexuality is nothing but a sinful lifestyle. Tell that to the preachers who petition their flock to go out and vote for marriage amendments. Tell that to the parents who belittle homosexuals in front of their children, teach their kids that homosexuals are deviants and stand by while children are beaten, threatened or even killed because they are different.

Tell it to those who do use the Bible to do harm. There's obviously many of them out there using the scriptures in exactly the way the man described in that video.

Don't tell us. I already know what moderates, non-literalists and many others think about those passages and that they don't adhere to them or justify them to abuse others. And for the most part I don't care about those passages at all.

Tell those who do take the Bible literally and use those passages to justify harming others.

I doubt that many people in his audience that day fit these descriptions at all.

The bone of contention lies not so much in what he said but where he said it and who he said it to. OH, and HOW he said it. "Panty *****?"

 

[HerDotness]

Oh, here's more from that speech:


Savage also attacked the Republican Party — and specifically Callista Gingrich, the wife of Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich.
“The Bible says if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father’s doorstep and stoned to death,” he said. “Callista Gingrich still lives.”

Actually, Savage was wrong about why Callista Gingrich deserved to be stoned to death.

Here's why she should be: [Wiki biog ]Callista testified in 1999 as part of Gingrich's divorce proceedings that the couple began a six-year affair in 1993 while Newt was married to his second wife, Marianne.[ \

 

[Kathryn]

Actually, Savage was wrong about why Callista Gingrich deserved to be stoned to death.

Here's why she should be: [Wiki biog ]Callista testified in 1999 as part of Gingrich's divorce proceedings that the couple began a six-year affair in 1993 while Newt was married to his second wife, Marianne.[ \

Look, I'm no fan of Gingrich OR his wife. But I wouldn't stand up in front of a group of high schoolers and say such drivel.

IN A PPRO PRI ATE.

 

[Me Myself]

So do you think these kids who tormented you were Christians? This does not sound like Christ like behavior to me at all.

I know they really didn´t understood how much I hated it.

If I had ever tried to commit suicide (never thought of it though, wasn´t THAT harsh) I am sure all would have stopped, and most surely many or at least a pair of the "popular" ones would have apologized.

they never pysically hurt me either. Just danced around and ended up throwing my desk with me in it because of all the pushs.

There was a type of religious retirement that we went through near the end of the year, it was part of whatyou have to do with the highschool. There was one of the spiritual works in which we all were in a circle and the instruction simply was to look at each other and go hug someone who you feel you have done wrong in some moment.

All of the "big heads" or "leaders" of the little dances came to me and apologized in that ritual. I know they were sincere, but to this day I truly don´t think they understood how much damage they did to me. I truly believe that if I had been able I should have broken the arm ofsomeone. The arm would havehealed quickly... a person´s psychology is more touchy... and I was damm patient with them doing it too frecuently, so it is not like they didn´t have time to understand when I said "STOP". But all my body just... tensed up, and I was barely able to move from the anger. It was like trying to kick everyone at once, like a lot of people trying to come out of the same door and none coming out... something like that.

It just happens

What I mean is that being bullyied is something real. It´s deep. It doesn´t happen once neither. Real psychological bullying is repetitive, not a one timer.

No text can be held holy than supports forcing people to kill themselves because of shame or feeling of being hated by their leviticus following peers.

It´s beyond inhumane.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Then, why is LEVITICUS on homosexuality the text typically used to show that homosexuality is a horrific sin? You delight in using "imperfect" laws that the New Covenant superseded just because they say what you want said, is that it?

Not much consistency operative here, that's obvious.

I don't need to, as it's clearly laid out in Matthew, Romans and Timothy what the Christian Sexual Ethic is, Lev is not the solo image of homosexuality in scripture

 

[Kathryn]

I know they really didn´t understood how much I hated it.

If I had ever tried to commit suicide (never thought of it though, wasn´t THAT harsh) I am sure all would have stopped, and most surely many or at least a pair of the "popular" ones would have apologized.

they never pysically hurt me either. Just danced around and ended up throwing my desk with me in it because of all the pushs.

There was a type of religious retirement that we went through near the end of the year, it was part of whatyou have to do with the highschool. There was one of the spiritual works in which we all were in a circle and the instruction simply was to look at each other and go hug someone who you feel you have done wrong in some moment.

All of the "big heads" or "leaders" of the little dances came to me and apologized in that ritual. I know they were sincere, but to this day I truly don´t think they understood how much damage they did to me. I truly believe that if I had been able I should have broken the arm ofsomeone. The arm would havehealed quickly... a person´s psychology is more touchy... and I was damm patient with them doing it too frecuently, so it is not like they didn´t have time to understand when I said "STOP".

It just happens

What I mean is that being bullyied is something real. It´s deep. It doesn´t happen once neither. Real psychological bullying is repetitive, not a one timer.

No text can be held holy than supports forcing people to kill themselves because of shame or feeling of being hated by their leviticus following peers.

It´s beyond inhumane.

The bible doesn't support forcing people to kill themselves because of shame or feeling hated by a few idiots at school.

I was bullied in school too - viciously in fact. My entire seventh and eighth grade years were filled with bullying. None of it was faith based either by the way, and I seriously doubt that any of the bullies had been to Sunday school or cracked open a bible in a long, long time - if ever.

The bullying got so bad that I was literally afraid to go to school, lost my appetite, cried on the bus home nearly every single day, tried my best to literally hide from people at school - it was awful. I was physically assaulted on several occasions, and pushed and yelled at down the hall or outside DAILY by a group of girls, who were all a lot bigger than me, I might add.

**** happens. That's why I was so adamant with my CHRISTIAN kids that I would NOT tolerate bullying of any kind toward any person - ever. Jesus told us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.