Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.

[SavedByTheLord]

This again? That's for YOU and anybody else willing to believe that toothless threat to worry about.

"To the philosophy of atheism belongs the credit of robbing death of its horror and its terror. It brought about the abolition of Hell." - Joseph Lewis

Interesting choice of words. In my church, we were told that our sins were paid for, not punished, and that the crucifixion was depicted as a sacrifice and act of love, not an act of wrath.

This gets us back to the Christian concept of love. Here, love is building a torture pit, stocking it full of demons and fire, and tossing people into it after "warning" them to comply with assorted commandments or else. "Why did you force me to hurt you?" asks the abusive boyfriend and this god. I'm also shocked at what passes for love in, "Love the sinner, hate the sin," which manifests as hating the sinner. Depicting a blood sacrifice as an act of love is pretty off-putting as well.

What are you babbling about?
of course are sins were punished in the wrath poured out on Christ.
You are lost and you will find out the very moment you die.

 

[Esteban X]

What are you babbling about?
of course are sins were punished in the wrath poured out on Christ.
You are lost and you will find out the very moment you die.

How very convenient.

 

[YoursTrue]

So unless I am 'saved', your god is going to put me in a lake of fire for all eternity?

The lake of fire is symbolic..not literal. It signifies death forever with no possibility of resurrection.

 

[Sargonski]

All my sins were punished about 2000 years ago on the cross as God my Father poured out His wrath on His own Son .
And Christ had the most to say about hell than anyone as He lovingly warned about it.

Yes Friend -- we have already established that you believe you are saved by Lord Martin .. and believe in the "Free Pass" ideology .. that calling out "Lord Lord -- I Believe" lets you avoid Judgement .. take the VIP line through the pearly Gates.

The question was to your claim about punishment being eternal .. do you have biblical support for this claim.

and yes .. Christ lovingly warned about those who believe in Wolf Martin's Doctrine .. Matt 7 -

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

​

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

This "Faith Alone" doctrine of Lord Martin is not the good fruit .. and thus those promoting such idolotrous doctrine .. well .. you can read for yourself what happens to them. No amount of pleading "Lord Lord -I believe" will save one from sin nor judgement for sin .. such pleadings are degrading and not the will of the Father - and Jesus say ONLY those who do the will of the Father gonna be let in to heaven.. So best one be learning what the will of the father is .

 

[YoursTrue]

What are you babbling about?
of course are sins were punished in the wrath poured out on Christ.
You are lost and you will find out the very moment you die.

Sorry my dear but nobody finds out anything when they're dead.
Ecclesiastes 9:5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.

 

[YoursTrue]

So, saved from something that doesn't exist.

It exists. It just isn't what many people think it means or is. It exists symbolically, not literally.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You are lost and you will find out the very moment you die.

I see you as lost now, and you will never find that out.

The lake of fire is symbolic..not literal.

This is a modern understanding, just like a day of creation is no longer a literal day. In my church, scriptures about hell were understood literally. There is no theological basis for you saying that they were wrong and you are correct. The reasons for modifying hell theology are practical:

Christianity has been waning in the West since the Enlightenment and has reached a tipping point in America now, a point long since passed in the Western European social democracies and other anglophone countries (CA, SA, Aus, NZ). The church is on the defensive as people increasing reject its bigotries, antisciencism, and the hell theology that depicts its god as a monster, and survival, if possible, will require reworking all of that theology and repackaging it into a more atheistic humanist ideology, which rejects all of that entirely in an effort to attempt to seem relevant to a society that increasingly finds it to be otherwise.

Incidentally, that was an interesting scripture you just cited in post 1186. Of course, it's Old Testament. Normally, he's the literalist and you take the more practical approach to interpreting scripture, but I'm going to guess that that will be reversed here, and he will be telling you why those scriptures don't mean what they say.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

I see you as lost now, and you will never find that out.

This is a modern understanding, just like a day of creation is no longer a literal day. In my church, scriptures about hell were understood literally. There is no theological basis for you saying that they were wrong and you are correct. The reasons for modifying hell theology are practical:

Christianity has been waning in the West since the Enlightenment and has reached a tipping point in America now, a point long since passed in the Western European social democracies and other anglophone countries (CA, SA, Aus, NZ). The church is on the defensive as people increasing reject its bigotries, antisciencism, and the hell theology that depicts its god as a monster, and survival, if possible, will require reworking all of that theology and repackaging it into a more atheistic humanist ideology, which rejects all of that entirely in an effort to attempt to seem relevant to a society that increasingly finds it to be otherwise.

Incidentally, that was an interesting scripture you just cited in post 1186. Of course, it's Old Testament. Normally, he's the literalist and you take the more practical approach to interpreting scripture, but I'm going to guess that that will be reversed here, and he will be telling you why those scriptures don't mean what they say.

Your assessment that many have fallen away in the western world, US and Europe, is correct. And all predicted in the word of God from 2000 to 35000 years ago with exact detail and with exact timing. But the reason is that they compromised on the Bible and will compromise even more.
Christ said as in the days of Noah so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man. Noah was a preacher of righteousness (the gospel of Christ as revealed in Gen 3:15) and only 8 were saved, those on the ark.

Paul wrote:

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. - Gal 1:10

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. - Jude 1:3,22-23

 

[ratiocinator]

And all predicted in the word of God from 2000 to 35000 years ago with exact detail and with exact timing.

Exact eh? Care to quote what was said about 2023. Perhaps you have insight for next year too...?

 

[Subduction Zone]

But why do you believe that God did not create things to be that way?
Or maybe it happened at the fall or after the flood.

Are you seriously asking us why we don't believe that God lied? Because that's what it looks like you asked.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God did not plant false evidence.
Satan just gives you false theories.
Remember Satan deceives the whole world.

No, you accused God of planting false evidence. You really need to work on those reading skills.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

No, you accused God of planting false evidence. You really need to work on those reading skills.

I did not.
Wrong.

The scientists are deceived in the area of origins. They have deceived you because of the no God assumption.
But you are a proof that the Bible is true, So Thanks.

 

[ratiocinator]

I did not.

It's there in black and white. No point in denying it now.

They have deceived you because of the no God assumption.

No such assumption exists. The science follows the evidence and many of those involved were and are believers in god.

But you are a proof that the Bible is true, So Thanks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I did not.
Wrong.

The scientists are deceived in the area of origins. They have deceived you because of the no God assumption.
But you are a proof that the Bible is true, So Thanks.

Yes, you did. Others saw it too.

 

[YoursTrue]

How very convenient.

@SavedByTheLord has expressed many valid ideas about creation.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Your assessment that many have fallen away in the western world, US and Europe, is correct. And all predicted in the word of God from 2000 to 35000 years ago with exact detail and with exact timing. But the reason is that they compromised on the Bible and will compromise even more.

It's obvious to this atheistic humanist that religion will continue to play an increasing smaller place in the lives of men according to each region's intellectual and moral evolution and local conditions and standards of living. The least developed there have the furthest to go. The most developed are approaching post-religious now.

Man's religious phase will connect the time when he first began to wonder where it all came from to the time when he gets his answers, followed by the post-religious phase.

We aren't all moving toward that end at the same rate, and some are far behind others. The atheists are already there. The theistic humanists and polytheists are closest among theists. Among the Abrahamic monotheists, the Jews and Baha'i are closest. Fundamentalists of all types are still into the magical thinking of the ancients.

Paul wrote:

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. - Gal 1:10

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. - Jude 1:3,22-23

Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you. How's that working out? How many are you bringing to Christ? None?

I certainly don't envy you that impossible and frustrating task. They sent you out to bring in new tithers but armed you with nothing that can do that, and so you wander the threads being rejected and criticized.

But they thought of that, too, and have told you it was prophesied, making it seem like you should keep it up anyway.

This is from atheist firebrand Pat Condell:

"It must be quite galling for religious people to see atheists like me going about their business without a shred of guilt or self-loathing, and not in the least inclined to pray or to do penance of any kind, and not in the slightest bit worried about any form of eternal punishment. I have to admit if I was religious, I'd probably think to myself: "How come I've got all this weight on my shoulders while these bums are getting a free ride?"

 

[Subduction Zone]

@SavedByTheLord has expressed many valid ideas about creation.

Where?. I have not seen one. And if your claim was true then why does he run away from demands of evidence?

 

[YoursTrue]

Exact eh? Care to quote what was said about 2023. Perhaps you have insight for next year too...?

I find it interesting that so many debaters are dead set against what the Bible says, no matter. @SavedByTheLord expresses many excellent questions that neither you nor science can answer except by postulations but these postulations do not validate the truth. It is also interesting that Pontius Pilate was questioning Jesus, and Jesus told him he is the truth.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's obvious to this atheistic humanist that religion will continue to play an increasing smaller place in the lives of men according to each region's intellectual and moral evolution and local conditions and standards of living. The least developed there have the furthest to go. The most developed are approaching post-religious now.

Man's religious phase will connect the time when he first began to wonder where it all came from to the time when he gets his answers, followed by the post-religious phase.

We aren't all moving toward that end at the same rate, and some are far behind others. The atheists are already there. The theistic humanists and polytheists are closest among theists. Among the Abrahamic monotheists, the Jews and Baha'i are closest. Fundamentalists of all types are still into the magical thinking of the ancients.

Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you. How's that working out? How many are you bringing to Christ? None?

I certainly don't envy you that impossible and frustrating task. They sent you out to bring in new tithers but armed you with nothing that can do that, and so you wander the threads being rejected and criticized.

But they thought of that, too, and have told you it was prophesied, making it seem like you should keep it up anyway.

This is from atheist firebrand Pat Condell:

"It must be quite galling for religious people to see atheists like me going about their business without a shred of guilt or self-loathing, and not in the least inclined to pray or to do penance of any kind, and not in the slightest bit worried about any form of eternal punishment. I have to admit if I was religious, I'd probably think to myself: "How come I've got all this weight on my shoulders while these bums are getting a free ride?"

To wonder where it all came from actually proves there is a God.

 

[ratiocinator]

I find it interesting that so many debaters are dead set against what the Bible says, no matter.

I'm not 'dead set against' it at all. It does have some things to say that I agree with but it is silly to think it can all be true or think that some arbitrary 'literal' interpretation can be better than evidence-based science. My point was that @SavedByTheLord made a rather absurd claim of exactness about perditions of what is happening now.

@SavedByTheLord expresses many excellent questions that neither you nor science can answer except by postulations...

Such as.....?