Animal suffering and God's nature

[1137]

Bud, I love animals, I cried for a week when I had to put a dog down for distemper. I laughed and got the messaged when another dog pee'd on my shoes. I've had fish and bird, My son now like reptiles. I would never assume I knew what they were thinking or felt. They are great impressionists and copy us very well. To think you understand an animal you are delusional.

I understand that some day that same animal I love and believe love's me may rip my face off. I understand that the same animal would not be wrong in doing so. I understand the love and emotions I see in him are mine not his.

Here's a thought only Man, Woman and the Serpent were kicked out of Eden perhaps god allows animals there whole life in Eden. With God all things are possible what you see and feel do not have to be the same.

You may not believe in god, then how about this animals can not suffer they do not have the mental capability to do so. For them every moment is just different.

I want you to call over your animal, right now, and kick it in the ribs. I mean they don't feel pain, right? Maybe throw it against a wall, step on it, hit it with something, maybe burn in. I don't think you will though. I think you know what you're saying is BS.

 

[bobhikes]

I want you to call over your animal, right now, and kick it in the ribs. I mean they don't feel pain, right? Maybe throw it against a wall, step on it, hit it with something, maybe burn in. I don't think you will though. I think you know what you're saying is BS.

First off, To prove your point you want to threaten my animal and you don't think your wrong.

Second it proves nothing when I kick a rock I feel pain. If I kicked a dog that was a attacking me I would be upset. If I throw a piece of paper on the ground I feel bad and pick it up. I humanize the world. I know I do it. Apparently you don't.

 

[1137]

First off, To prove your point you want to threaten my animal and you don't think your wrong.

Second it proves nothing when I kick a rock I feel pain. If I kicked a dog that was a attacking me I would be upset. If I throw a piece of paper on the ground I feel bad and pick it up. I humanize the world. I know I do it. Apparently you don't.

There is a reason a dog cries out you hurt them. I said to do this because I called your bs a mile away. The chances of you being a sociopath is rather slim.

 

[Road Warrior]

So, because animals feel pain you believe there is no afterlife, no great force in the Universe in which we are all a part?

 

[1137]

So, because animals feel pain you believe there is no afterlife, no great force in the Universe in which we are all a part?

I believe because animals can excessively suffer for no reason that any god that may exist isn't loving... Whered all this come from? I accept there is a force that everything is made for, therefore tying everything together.

 

[Road Warrior]

An atheist believes that any suffering is proof God doesn't exist.

A theist believes that suffering is temporary.

 

[1137]

An atheist believes that any suffering is proof God doesn't exist.

A theist believes that suffering is temporary.

Suffering is temporary, pretty much an illusion too. Suffering is proof that god isn't loving, not non existent. Care to amend your generalizations?

 

[Road Warrior]

Suffering is proof that god isn't loving,

Really? So every parent who denies a child their every want isn't loving by your standards. Is this correct?

Suffering is temporary. Even torturing to death. What is temporary pain compared to eternal bliss?

 

[1137]

Really? So every parent who denies a child their every want isn't loving by your standards. Is this correct?

Very common (and weak) straw man. We are not denying everything one wants. I do not give my dog treats every time she asks. But if a parent denies their child aid when they are sick, suffering, in pain, then no they are not loving.

Suffering is temporary. Even torturing to death. What is temporary pain compared to eternal bliss?

Well, eternal bliss is a silly idea made for comfort. When we die we are dead, there is no more awareness, we return to the source we came from. (You can consider me an atheistic semi-taoist). But still, I agree that suffering is temporary. That does not mean we should just allow it and shrug it off. Even if you believe in eternal bliss after death you are still unloving if, say, your child had a horrifically painful and slow working flesh eating disease and you simply let it consume them while reminding them "it is only temporary".

 

[Road Warrior]

if a parent denies their child aid when they are sick, suffering, in pain, then no they are not loving.

In a mortal world, you are correct. Enjoy your suffering.

 

[Quagmire]

According to my beliefs, suffering is God's way of finding out who the whiners are.

 

[1137]

In a mortal world, you are correct. Enjoy your suffering.

I feel bad informing you, but we live in a mortal world. Welcome, it is uncaring and meaningless. I don't necessarily enjoy my suffering, but I learn from it. It is an important part of life that helps us grow. But animals are different, they are not rational, they cannot understand their suffering. That is just cruel.

However, I do recognize and am thankful for being able to experience all I do, not necessarily happy about it always. Animals cannot be.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

God created a beautiful earth full of life and gave humanity dominion over it. When humans chose rebellion and sinned against their Creator the consequence of death and suffering resulted which affects all of creation, including animals. This world is sin-cursed and it is the fault of sinful humans that animals suffer. God created all things perfect but humanity marred His beautiful creation and still continue to do so. But the Creator will not let such sin and the resulting damage it does go on forever.

So you're able to blame the magical Flood which killed all the animals, on man and not the one who actually did it.. God?

 

[InChrist]

So you're able to blame the magical Flood which killed all the animals, on man and not the one who actually did it.. God?

If you think the flood is a magical story then no further discussion is necessary, since from your view no animals were killed anyway.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

If you think the flood is a magical story then no further discussion is necessary, since from your view no animals were killed anyway.

I'm calling it 'magical' because it involves a flood that no normal natural circumstance could create; so, you presume that somehow man 'magically' made it rain? Or do you recognize that it's God's fault it rained and flooded the Earth? Killing all the animals.

 

[Koldo]

I feel bad informing you, but we live in a mortal world. Welcome, it is uncaring and meaningless. I don't necessarily enjoy my suffering, but I learn from it. It is an important part of life that helps us grow. But animals are different, they are not rational, they cannot understand their suffering. That is just cruel.

However, I do recognize and am thankful for being able to experience all I do, not necessarily happy about it always. Animals cannot be.

And what is the point of this growth if it is not to avoid more suffering?

 

[Road Warrior]

I feel bad informing you, but we live in a mortal world. Welcome, it is uncaring and meaningless. I don't necessarily enjoy my suffering, but I learn from it.

Poor you. What do you learn from it, that it's a complete waste of time, "uncaring and meaningless"?

 

[InChrist]

I'm calling it 'magical' because it involves a flood that no normal natural circumstance could create; so, you presume that somehow man 'magically' made it rain? Or do you recognize that it's God's fault it rained and flooded the Earth? Killing all the animals.

Sin and wickedness are the fault of humanity. According to the scriptures, evil reached such a point that God determined by His wisdom the earth had to be cleansed. As Creator He has the sovereign right to do so. Sadly, since animal life was under the care and responsibility of mankind many animals were destroyed also, but not all of them. The reality is that sin is horrible and it impacts not only the one who sins, but others, including animal life and all of God’s creation.

 

[1137]

And what is the point of this growth if it is not to avoid more suffering?

Very true! We learn to handle our pain better.

Poor you. What do you learn from it, that it's a complete waste of time, "uncaring and meaningless"?

Poor me? Of all I have been through in my life I do not even think I have once asked for pity. I can learn about myself, learn about others, learn about our little world here. Who cares if it is a waste of time? Using this forum is a waste of time, going to the movies is a waste of time, technically everything you are doing and learning in your life is a waste of time, and it will be better when you just accept that you are going to die. No amount of hopeful or magical thinking will make you immortal.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Sin and wickedness are the fault of humanity. According to the scriptures, evil reached such a point that God determined by His wisdom the earth had to be cleansed.

Right. So, God killed all mankind via Flood.. and killed all the innocent animals as well as sort of acceptable collateral damage?

As Creator He has the sovereign right to do so. Sadly, since animal life was under the care and responsibility of mankind many animals were destroyed also, but not all of them. The reality is that sin is horrible and it impacts not only the one who sins, but others, including animal life and all of God’s creation.

So, you're another person who pathologically cannot blame God for his evil action of slaughtering all the innocent animals?

Man did not, and would not have, killed all the animals. The Flood is not in any way, an action created by Man. If it is a consequence of his evil, it is still not something any Man decided, nor are we capable of causing something like that [certainly not in prehistory]. The form and shape of the punishment was completely in God's hands; so you cannot blame Man.

that was a direct action by God.

Now, why is it ok, with you, that God killed all those innocent creatures? This is really the question I've been asking again and again. Is it because you view them as not-really-alive or something, because they are not human? Does it have to do with their quality of, or lack of, souls? Or is it perhaps that anything God decides is ok, even if it goes against human
morals?

I mean, I am aware tha in some backwater places in America, people still throw buckets of unwanted puppies into rivers, but, in New York at least, civilized law would at least see such a person arrested and charged with animal cruelty. Here, we have your God, without batting a proverbial eye nor even speaking about it in scripture, slaughtering millions upon countless millions of animals, insects, birds, fish and who knows what else [unicorns and giants and dinosaurs perhaps] simply to punish Man.

Man might have deserved it [the fact that many were oldsters or infants is another argument entirely, fully under way], but, the animals could not possibly have deserved it.

Why don't you hold God accountable for his cruelty to the animals?