Angels in Art

[Bishka]

That would be my understanding, too, Dawn.

Me too.

 

[lilithu]

It's always been my understanding, since childhood, James, that Satan was an angel. To be honest, it wasn't until recent years that I even took notice to the fact that there are different types of angels. So, trust me...

I don't claim to be an expert on angels. Which is why I chose my wording carefully. I believe I stated that Satan was supposedly a Cherub.

I've simply heard and read OTHERS refer to Satan as a Cherub.

Ezekial, Chapter 28, verses 12-16 states that Satan was the "anointed cherub". I have a hunch though that your interpretation of these verses may be a little different than mine.

I simply believe that Satan was a an angel cast out of heaven.

Edit: It seems that I'm not the only one who has posted from Ezekial, Chapter 28.

I did not get the impression that James was objecting to Satan being an angel. He was objecting to Satan being a cherub. While I also do not claim to be an expert on angels it's my understanding that cherubs are rather low on the totem pole for angels. When I went to Lutheran school I was taught that Satan was an Archangel, as James said. It makes a lot more sense that an Archangel would get prideful and defy God and be able to draw a third of the heavenly host with him than a cherub doing that.

And for the nth time, Ezekial does not say that Satan was the anointed cherub. No where is Satan mentioned in the text. One can claim that Ezekial is talking about the King of Tyre and Satan but it's not supported in the text. That's poor exegesis.

 

[dawny0826]

I did not get the impression that James was objecting to Satan being an angel. He was objecting to Satan being a cherub. While I also do not claim to be an expert on angels it's my understanding that cherubs are rather low on the totem pole for angels. When I went to Lutheran school I was taught that Satan was an Archangel, as James said. It makes a lot more sense that an Archangel would get prideful and defy God and be able to draw a third of the heavenly host with him than a cherub doing that.

And for the nth time, Ezekial does not say that Satan was the anointed cherub. No where is Satan mentioned in the text. One can claim that Ezekial is talking about the King of Tyre and Satan but it's not supported in the text. That's poor exegesis.

I didn't feel that he was objecting to Satan being an angel, either.

Truthfully, I'm really not in the position to debate about the types of angels. I don't really care if Satan was a Cherub or an Archangel. Either way, I see him as a cast aside angel.

I didn't read your posts, Lilith, hence my Edit, stating that I noticed that others had posted from Ezekial AFTER I posted. I wasn't aware until after I posted that you'd stated a point for "nth" time.

Ezekiel, according to my New King James Version of the Bible, utilized "prophecies, parables, signs and symbols to dramatize God's message to His exiled people".

The "tale" of King Tyre is one of woe.

In Chapter 28, the reader can identify with the literal King Tyre and his fall as well as Satan. Whether or not Ezekiel intended for us to make that connection or not, he utilized language that makes it easy for the reader to make that connection between Satan and Tyre.

Verse 12...

"Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre and say to him, "Thus says the Lord God: You are the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God"

Looking at context, we know that King Tyre didn't hang out in the garden of Eden, according to Scripture. These verses could very well symbolize man...could symbolize Satan before the "fall". They're open for interpretation because of the symbolism.

In verse 14th, this individual is referred to as "the annointed cherub" who was "on the holy mountain of God."

Was King Tyre a literal cherub? No. But in language, he's being compared to one...described as one.

And in Verse 16...we learn how this "annointed Cherub" meets its demise...

"By the abundance of your trading, You became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing, Out of the mountain of God, And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones"

Who became filled with violence within? Obviously, King Tyre. And he was destroyed.

When I read "cast", here...my brain automatically recalls Adam and Eve being cast out of the garden of Eden because of their sin. I think of Satan being cast from heaven because of his sin. There's a theme here...that's easy to pick up on...within the context.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ezekiel's intent was to discuss King Tyre and only King Tyre, but Ezekiel CHOSE to use specific language to make us think...

"You were in Eden, the garden of God"...which suggests that MORE is being discussed here than just the fall of a King.

It all boils down to interpretation and what the Word says to the reader. I read that Ezekiel meant to tell me more here than just the situation with the King. I feel that he wanted me to make that connection between sin and destruction.

And that theme applies to Satan.

 

[wmam]

cherubim?

Cherubim have four wings, not twnly thing I have observed from ancient depictions of anything with two wings are that of pagan mythological deity's.
</IMG>

 

[michel]

Hmmm. They've all got wings. Angels don't have wings.

How do you know ? Have you seen one ? The following link shows the many ways in which Angels have been depicted - in graveyards.
http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/angels/17.html