1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Ancient Civilizations

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by sooda, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian
    There are 255 Nubian pyramids.. very, very old and they weren't damaged by Noah's flood.

    Great pictures here:

    Pictures of Sudan's forgotten Nubian pyramids

    Around 1000 BCE, after the fall of the 24th Egyptian dynasty, the Nubian Kingdom of Kush arose as the leading power in the middle Nile region.

    The Ku****e kings took over and ruled much of Egypt from 712 to 657 BCE. In 300 BCE, when the capital and royal burial ground of the kingdom moved to the Meroe region, the pharaonic tradition of building pyramids to encapsulate the tombs of rulers continued here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    I often feel people don't read what I write.

    Now it seems you aren't reading what you write.
     
  3. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    No.

    I believe every single one of the Egyptological assumptions are in error so none of their conclusions are relevant to reality.

    This includes their assumption that Manetho's king's list is more appropriate for dating than carbon 14 decay.
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian

    Menetho lived in the 3rd century BC.. Ancient Egypt was 2,000 years PAST TENSE..

    Manetho, also known as Manethon of Sebennytos, was an Egyptian historian and priest from Sebennytos (ancient Egyptian: Tjebnutjer) who lived during the Ptolemaic era, circa 3rd century BC. Manetho recorded Aegyptiaca (History of Egypt).

    Manetho | Ancient Egypt Wiki | Fandom powered by Wikia
    ancientegypt.wikia.com/wiki/Manetho
     
  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    13,470
    Ratings:
    +6,494
    Religion:
    None
    First off, your use of the word "assumption" is
    much like the way creationists use the
    word in order to dismiss all of historical geology,
    evolution, that stuff. "it is all assumptions" as in,
    just baseless (or worse) guesswork, with no
    data at all to back it.

    You may wish to be careful with how you bandies about
    with that word, as, for many here, it is seen as a "tell"!

    At any rate, while you first denied it, you went on
    to demonstrate that you think you do know more.

    I will illustrate with an example,

    For many years, really until the first polar overflight
    early in the 20th century, there was a belief
    widely held, in a hyperborean sea, open water, with
    but a ring of sea ice around it. So much so that
    many lives were lost in the quest for a passage to it.

    Many were the speculative notions of the land mass
    in that ocean, the civilization thereon!

    Now, if you went to Royal Society in London, in the
    day, of, say, 1870 and heard the learned and august
    discussions, you might well note that these guys
    could weild an azimuth and a sextant, a gravitometer
    and a blatherskyte like crazy, could expound on
    ocean currents and why / how the polar sea
    is open, and convince a radish that they are
    correct.

    Ok! You dont know a sextant from a polalriscope,
    but, you do know more than any of the did, for
    lo, you know the the Hyperborean Sea exiseth
    not./

    YOU also know that all these "assumptions" of
    the Egypptologists are wrong, every single one
    and they are , uh, lets see..
    not (even) relevant to reality!

    Prease exprain how this does not mean that you
    believe you know more than any of them do.
     
    #125 Audie, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  6. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    I do not know more than Egyptologists. For every fact I know about the Egyptians and their artefacts the average Egyptologist knows a hundred (maybe even a thousand). They are experts I am not.

    I believe that they are basing their models on erroneous assumption. ie- many of the things they "know" are in error and every fact appended to one of these erroneous models is also incorrect or irrelevant because the model is wrong. I don't know much about the pyramid builders but most of the facts I know are, I believe, correct. This is why my models are well supported by evidence. Of course they have so much support because my theory was built upon facts and evidence instead of the erroneous assumptions that ancient people were moribund and changeless superstitious bumpkins who dragged tombs up ramps when Manetho implied they did. I started only with the assumption that all people always make perfect sense in terms of their premises (just like Egyptologists). Since I understand what they said I can make many deductions about their premises.

    Ancient civilizations weren't built on superstitious nonsense and beliefs like modern man: Homo Omnisciencis. Ancient civilization was built built on a metaphysical language that is the root of consciousness and evolution. Ancient people were able to stand on the shoulders of giants because they had a complex binary language just like oak trees and rabbits. It was complex language that gave rise to the human race. It was a mutation that tied the speech center to higher brain functions which invented agriculture and cities. It was not ignorance and superstition as rules everything today. There was no blind adherence to the status quo and any individual could make an important discovery or invent new means to tie known science into language. People used to be concerned with the past, present, and future and they were concerned with being right instead of being in the majority. They weren't concerned about beliefs because they lacked any words that meant "belief" thereby showing Egyptologists are wrong.
     
  7. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    The problem is all of Manetho's books have been lost. I believe he had access to original material about the pyramids and the ancients but those sources and Manetho are all lost.

    We have gone far astray largely because of this loss of Manetho's writing.
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    13,470
    Ratings:
    +6,494
    Religion:
    None
    I went to the trouble of that thing about the Royal Society
    just so you would not come back with how them
    scientists know more facts. Good grief.

    Do I have to explain it??? IF you know there is no
    hyperborea then you know more than all those
    scientist with all their facts!

    Same with Egypt. You know more than all those
    archaeologists because you know their assumptions
    are wrong. Simple; you laid it out for us, now own it.

    You will be even more believable if you spell
    "artifact" correctly, and as for Homo Omnisciencis.
    silly as that may be, at least do not capitalize the
    species name!!!

    But never mind. With this-
    It was complex language that gave rise to the human race. It was a mutation that tied the speech center to higher brain functions which invented agriculture and cities. It was not ignorance and superstition as rules everything today.

    You have shown you know more than anyone,
    and dwelleth not even on the same planet as
    the rest of us. Somewhere out past the orbit
    of Pluto, it appears to be.

    You cannot reach me, and I surely cannot reach you.
    Be well, and prosper, or whatevs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian

    Josephus tells us that:

    Under the pretext of recording fables and current reports about the Jews, he (Manetho) took the liberty of introducing some incredible tales, wishing to represent us (the Jews) as mixed up with a crowd of Egyptian lepers and others, who for various maladies were condemned, as he asserts, to banishment from the country.

    Inventing a king named Amenophis, an imaginary person, the date of whose reign he consequently did not venture to fix … This king, he states, wishing to be granted … a vision of the gods, communicated his desire to his namesake, Amenophis, son of Paapis (Habu), whose wisdom and knowledge of the future were regarded as marks of divinity.

    This namesake replied that he would be able to see the gods if he purged the entire country of lepers and other polluted persons.

    Delighted at hearing this, the king collected all the maimed people in Egypt, numbering 80,000, and sent them to work in the stone-quarries on the east of the Nile, segregated from the rest of the Egyptians. They included, he adds, some of the learned priests, who were afflicted with leprosy.

    Then this wise seer Amenophis was seized with a fear that he would draw down the wrath of the gods on himself and the king if the violence done to these men were detected; and he added a prediction that the polluted people would find certain allies who would become masters of Egypt for thirteen years. He did not venture to tell this himself to the king, but left a complete statement in writing, and then put an end to himself. The king greatly disheartened.”


    [Against Apion, Flavius Josephus, Harvard University Press, 1926, p. 258-259].
     
  10. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    I'm sorry but I don't believe I know more than the experts. I believe that the experts have a bad paradigm to which no facts adhere. I believe much of reality is just as invisible from the perspective of the "laws of nature" as they are from the "laws of God". I believe much of what modern people believe is essentially not true or is only correct in a left handed sort of way.

    I'm no prophet and no "scientist". I have no delusions of grandeur. I've made no fantastic discoveries or invented any new machines or processes. I've merely made a long string of rediscoveries and have a perspective no human being has ever had before because I understand two distinct metaphysics.

    Egyptologists are wrong about many things and I can specify what they are and how they got it wrong but this doesn't make me an expert nor an Egyptologist.

    It seems perfectly legitimate to point out that ancient people couldn't survive at all if their neighbors weren't superstitious and they were. It's not apparent to modern people who enjoy the ancient technology we call "agriculture" but superstition would have been eradicated by "evolution". You can't survive when your neighbor always eats your lunch. There were no models and no beliefs until the "tower of babel'. They had no words for "belief", "thought", or taxonomies. They were not like us and are now extinct. They were replaced by a new species with a second speech center that is acquired in infanthood. They were replaced by a species whose individuals think they are "intelligent" and know everything.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    13,470
    Ratings:
    +6,494
    Religion:
    None
    Spare me. And the rest of us. Just stop.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    There are lots of borrowings from Manetho's lost books. My research has been pretty targeted so I have no opinion.

    It's an interesting post, though.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian
    Do you have other pieces of Manetho's writing?

    Egyptian Account of the Leper's Exodus - skeptically.org

    www.skeptically.org/oldtestament/id4.html

    Egyptian Account of the Leper's Exodus. The people of the Jews being leprous and scabby, and subject to certain other kinds of distempers, in the days of Bocchoris, king of Egypt, fled to the temples, and got their food there by begging. As the numbers were very great that were fallen under these diseases,...

    (scroll down at the link)
     
  14. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,852
    Ratings:
    +2,879
    Oh I see! Well that's that then!
     
  15. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian
    Did you actually write this?

    "I'm no prophet and no "scientist". I have no delusions of grandeur. I've made no fantastic discoveries or invented any new machines or processes. I've merely made a long string of rediscoveries and have a perspective no human being has ever had before because I understand two distinct metaphysics. "

    Are you nuts?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian
    Organized agriculture began to take shape 12,000 years ago, judging by stone granaries in Jordan and the Levant. .. grains and chick peas.

    The Tower of Babel is not so unusual.. Watchtowers were built all over the Middle East.. You could see an enemy coming from miles away and at night they were used as signal towers. I have seen some that survived the ages in Arabia.
     
  17. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2014
    Messages:
    14,354
    Ratings:
    +3,224
    Religion:
    Theological noncognitivist
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    9,890
    Ratings:
    +8,511
    Religion:
    none
    Depends on what you are dating. It's often not been very accurate on manuscripts for example.
     
  19. cladking

    cladking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,119
    Ratings:
    +152
    Religion:
    not applicable
    It also requires great care in sampling and is less accurate as the age of the specimen approaches about 5000 years. The results of the pyramid sampling were obviously skewed toward a greater age but with every sample being too old it's difficult to toss them all out. Either the pyramid is older or they need more testing. Probably both.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,813
    Ratings:
    +3,310
    Religion:
    Christian
    Are you familiar with the Nubian pyramids in northern Sudan?
     
Loading...