An Unkillable Myth About Atheists

[Deathbydefault]

Accepting death is a very religious act. It is not an atheistic one.

It can be both sided, neither has any sort of monopoly on it.

 

[LuisDantas]

(1) Where indeed does the myth that atheists have no meaning in their lives come from?

To a degree it is simple rote repetition of buzzwords. People who are likely to say such things tend to be those who overemphasize the "need" for theism. Not too few of them have only the vaguest notion of what theism is, or of why it is not synonimous with morality and with religion. Add to that the frequent social pressure to reafirm that they have a precious gift that is denied to those poor misguided atheists and there will be a ready-made stereotypical, deeply nihlisitic, caricatural "atheist" whose very survival seems somewhat unnatural.

There is just not a lot of genuine interest in some (largely Christian, Muslim and Bahai) circles to question that caricature when it is so much more appealling to lend credence to it and thereby reinforce their bounds of mutual reassurance that they are On The Right Path.

(2) Is the myth that atheists have no meaning in their lives a product of willful misunderstanding? Why or why not

If you mean a voluntary delusion, then yes, I would say so.

 

[LuisDantas]

I disagree. I faced death four times as an atheist. There was nothing religious about it.

While these were profound experiences, nothing religious ever entered the picture.

I wonder if Quintessence feels frustrated by reading such things. I am somewhat less invested than her in pointing out that yes, there is religiosity outside of theism, and still...

 

[columbus]

Yes, I believe I will be judged by a being exterior and separate of me after my physical body dies. The result of that judgement will be just to that being.

But you don't know what "just" means to this hypothetical being?

What if "He" wants you to behead Hindus, but you believe in the wrong human claiming to be a prophet of God?

What does "just" mean in a world dominated by prophets? People claiming to speak for God? How can you possibly know?
Tom

 

[Brickjectivity]

It can be both sided, neither has any sort of monopoly on it.

Ok. It can be a religious action.

 

[LuisDantas]

Accepting death is a very religious act. It is not an atheistic one.

I beg to differ. There is a very powerful atheistic experience of accepting death. I can testify to that.

Whether that is religious or not is entirely dependent on what one calls religion, of course.

world is meaningless if we die.

There is an alternative - an entirely atheistic or at least non-theistic one. If you are suffering from grave insomnia, give me the word and I will elaborate.

 

[RRex]

there is religiosity outside of theism

I usually refer to it as spirituality, but not in the traditional sense.

I once stunned a co-worker, who happened to know I was an atheist, by discussing my spirituality.

He couldn't grasp that an atheist might have a heart.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Ok. It can be a religious action.

An action of accepting that one day all the stuff you do in life will come back to you in some ultimate form of karma?
Try thinking of death as the absolute end, just for a minute.
You die and then nothing. No conscience, no family, friends, pets, happiness, sadness. Nothing.
I give more credit to those who can accept that interpretation of death, of the end with no new beginning.

 

[LuisDantas]

I usually refer to it as spirituality, but not in the traditional sense.

I once stunned a co-worker, who happened to know I was an atheist, by discussing my spirituality.

He couldn't grasp that an atheist might have a heart.

And then there are some who believe that "deep down" we believe in God, and so on.

Atheists are not very well understood, generally speaking. That there is no such thing as a true "typical" atheist probably does not help, either.

 

[RRex]

And then there are some who believe that "deep down" we believe in God, and so on.

Atheists are not very well understood, generally speaking. That there is no such thing as a true "typical" atheist probably does not help, either.

I agree with the second paragraph. Atheists are extremely misunderstood.

When I argue the spirituality of an atheist I normally equate it to the spirit of a horse.

We will refer to some horses as "spirited". That is how I saw myself as a spiritual/spirited atheist - full of heart.

I know I'll be fried for this, but that's how I feel about it and feelings aren't up for debate.

 

[viole]

Theism=1
Agnostic non-knowing without ''atheism''=0
atheism=-1

We notice a clear negative affectation to the atheist position.

Now, this equation, is meant in an ''logical'' format of how we would attribute value to the positions.

The arguments that atheism is somehow not a position, I find bemusing, but I will not entertain them.



~q.

May I suggest to replace "theism = 1" with "theism = i"?

"i" being the imaginary unit, of course,

Ciao

- viole

 

[McBell]

Accepting death is a very religious act.

There is world of difference between an atheist accepting death and a theist "moving on"...

 

[Noa]

@OP

From my experience, the myth comes from two places. First, the person speaking felt like their life was meaningless before their conversion. Two, from churches giving their congregation speaking points when asked about atheism. The meaninglessness is always there alongside the 'no objective morality' thing.

And no, I do not think it is usually willful ignorance. They truly believe that without their faith all of life has no meaning.

 

[Brickjectivity]

An action of accepting that one day all the stuff you do in life will come back to you in some ultimate form of karma?

No, that is not acceptance of death. That is belief in karmic things and a different topic.

Try thinking of death as the absolute end, just for a minute.
You die and then nothing. No conscience, no family, friends, pets, happiness, sadness. Nothing.
I give more credit to those who can accept that interpretation of death, of the end with no new beginning.

It can be a religious act, and it isn't depressing. Being depressed about your life is going to influence how you view death, but death is itself not bad nor is it an atheist concept. Accepting death is like growing up and embracing your priorities. Its not sad to appreciate the life that you have, and it helps you value the lives of other people, too.

You aren't familiar with me, so I will point out where I am at. I have said in the past that I think the resurrection in Christianity is not originally about an afterlife, either; and the afterlife is borrowed from the Greeks. Eternal life is not personal or individual, for example but is only in Christ, which is the Church. I won't go into it for it might derail this topic. My point is that, yes, I do consider death to be the end of my individual life. It does not make me an atheist.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There is world of difference between an atheist accepting death and a theist "moving on"...

Ok. It can be a religious action.

 

[McBell]

Do theists actually accept death?
I mean, in their minds they do not really die, right?

 

[viole]

[Source]

(1) Where indeed does the myth that atheists have no meaning in their lives come from?

The myth is caused by this: I cannot accept that The Universe has not been created (for me, and my kids) ergo I cannot be an atheist.

(2) Is the myth that atheists have no meaning in their lives a product of willful misunderstanding? Why or why not

I don't think it is willful. They simply do not understand how we can find purposes, while recognizing that there is no ultimate or metaphysical one. They cannot. For physical reasons.

We should not forget that belief in God, or the spiritual, is very likely an evolutionary adaptation that generates spurious purpose, so that we get old enough to spread some genes. At least until today. A sort of natural defense against nihilism and absurdism for agents with a such a brain, that is otherwise quite useful. Our brain is naturally theistic, or spiritual oriented, because of that.

Atheism or, more generally, the belief that there is not ultimate purpose or goal, are a violence to our natural intuitions. Like quantum mechanics.

But that does not entail that some cannot manage to accept it, and the consequences thereof.

I think that is why Nietzsche auspicated the evolution of the Uebermensch, able to find purpose despite knowing there being no ultimate one, as opposed to the normal Mensch. Who cannot.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Brickjectivity]

Do theists actually accept death?
I mean, in their minds they do not really die, right?

Well I think what I want to point out is that the reason this myth about atheists is based on misunderstanding is that acceptance of death is for some people associated with atheism, but yes. I do not think Christianity originally involves an afterlife. Its 'Eternal life' is in the Church in the form of the church living on. Its resurrection is the resurrection of the people of God and the restoration of everything lost, possibly the restoration of Israel (I can't really comment because I don't know everything). So that is from my point of view a religious theist perspective that accepts absolute death for individuals. I believe it comes from certain schools in Judaism which also accept death.

Any kind of afterlife is usually argued from the standpoint of fairness. Karma is about fairness. The Greek afterlife showcases a great underwordly judge. Christian afterlife borrows from the Greek one and has a judge. Sometimes people cannot accept that life isn't fair, and I think they will support various things to argue that it is. They might support theism for that purpose. They might support re-birth in another life. The thing is that afterlife is independent from theism. It is a separate topic, but people in theistic religions think of them as the same thing. Therefore the 'Unkillable myth' is due to a misunderstanding.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

It is hard to teach people that when they have been indoctrinated from birth that this world is unimportant, that what really matters is the afterlife.
I think your quote is essentially an antitheistic moral foundation, of which I heartily approve.
Tom

Not at all.
This is the essential philosophy distilled from the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Its the good deeds that one does that count,
not which banner you are flying, or what title you have.
There are lots of people who falsely claim Theism,
and many who have more faith than they care to admit.

But the real crunch comes when one's own life and interests are under threat.
Genuine believers (as opposed to mindless church-goers)
will risk it all to do what is morally correct.

Although these matters are not absolutely predictable, most of the time,
the atheist will behave in a morally incorrect manner when threatened.

 

[Mycroft]

[Source]

(1) Where indeed does the myth that atheists have no meaning in their lives come from?

(2) Is the myth that atheists have no meaning in their lives a product of willful misunderstanding? Why or why not

I think it's more a product of fear.