1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured An important message to: The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by savagewind, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,963
    Ratings:
    +466
    Religion:
    Christian gnosis
    The law of the Torah.
     
  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian
    That is no more than a cop-out.

    Do you not understand how many laws.are found in the Torah ?
     
  3. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,963
    Ratings:
    +466
    Religion:
    Christian gnosis
    I am not a Jew, so I have no need of the laws of Judaism. A Christian follows Christ, which gave two commandments. That is my focus.

    We are no longer under "laws", since laws are for the flesh. The words are clear:

    Galatians:
    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    To depend on the "law" shows little or no faith in Christ.

    If you place your faith in the law, so be it. But the words I quote refutes the ways of men who created orthodoxy. If the law worked, Jesus would not have had to come.

    One of us is misunderstanding. I show scripture. Show yours to refute mine.

    Ephesians:
    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    The mystery of Christ confuses you, IMO, as it did the church fathers that created orthodoxy. The "other ages" is the Hebrews. The Spirit was never given (to man) until Christ was resurrected.The gospel is the truth that saves, not the OT (as Paul says above).

    The Spirit reveals the knowledge, not men. Choose who to follow.
     
  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian
    You say, that the Spirit was never given ( to man) until Christ was resurrected.

    Maybe you need to get a plate for your going to have to eat your words.

    God says in Genesis 6:3 that His Spirit shall not always strive with man"

    That means God's Spirit was with man.

    How's about Exodus 31:1--3--"And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, See I have called by name Bezaleel the son Uri the son of Hurricane, of the tribe of Judah,
    And I have filled him with the Spirit of God"

    Now isn't that amazing, But you say that Spirit of God was never given to man.

    Maybe you need to Rethink that one.

    How's about Numbers 24:2--"The Spirit of God came upon him"

    Kinda looks like your going to have to eat your words.

    Shall I go on?

    How's about 1st Samuel 10:6--"And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you, and you shalt Prophesy with them"

    Judges 14:19--"And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him"

    1st Samuel 16:13--"And the Spirit of the Lord came upon David"

    As to why do people speak about things, before you check them out, before you speak.
     
  5. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,963
    Ratings:
    +466
    Religion:
    Christian gnosis
    So who do you believe? Moses or Jesus?

    Jesus said man didn't have it and Moses tells you man did.

    John 1:
    17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
    18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    I'll stick with the gospel. Follow Moses if you wish. The Spirit coming "upon" someone doesn't have the same effect as the Spirit coming "within" someone (making a home).

    Follow what you wish. You just HAVE to be right. Jesus said the people who followed YOUR words died. And that HIS words were life. A Christian follows Christ over anyone and anything. Way, truth, life.

    Sorry you don't accept that.
     
  6. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    I thought likely. The coming of the Spirit upon people before Jesus Christ was for work.
    The coming of the Spirit upon people who accept Jesus Christ is for life.
    He eats with us. We may sit at the same table with him.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian

    So your saying, The Lord is wrong in saying that his Spirit came upon Moses.

    Moses did not say this.

    The Lord said his Spirit came upon Moses.
     
  8. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    I do not know why it seems funny.
     
  9. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,963
    Ratings:
    +466
    Religion:
    Christian gnosis
    I say nothing. The Gospel is what "says". Not me. You are falling into the same trap the Jews fell into.

    Try to see it:

    John 8:
    36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
    37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
    38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
    39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
    40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

    This is not a question but a statement from Christ. Abraham didn't give the truth heard by God.

    41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    The Jews argued that the Father Jesus spoke of was their God. Jesus disagree's.

    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
    46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
    47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    Jesus is basically saying that there are two Gods. The one that misled the Jews and the true God, the Father. The Jews listened to the liar thinking it was God.

    Here is just one action of the liar and murderer:
    1 Samuel:
    And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

    Does this sound like the God who so loved the world to give his son? The Father is not a murderer of men. The imperfect god is jealous, breaks even the law given by Moses. Jesus message of love reveals the god of love. Paul says love is not jealous.

    The false god ruled by fear. Fear is not of the Father. Love is. Perfect love, not the love the false god showed.

    1 John:
    There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    It's hard to break the catholic ideology of one god. Which is why Jesus said to teach the gospel, not the Bible.
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian

    Your making one mistake, of not knowing there are two types of Jews in the world.
    Who claim to be Israel.

    Have you any idea which is which ?

    For Paul Written in Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God has not taken none effect, For they are not all Israel, Which are of Israel"

    So who is the real Israel ?
    For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

    So who is the real Israel ?
     
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    I think the real Israel is the 144,000, but it is not a definite number and I trust that they are not all from the tribes of the sons of Jacob. It is said that they are because each one is like one of the tribes. There isn't anyone from outside God's promise to Abraham. In other words, each of the 144,000 no matter how many there really are, agree with the word of God to Abraham.
     
  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian

    Look over in Israel, there are two.

    One being the true Israel of God.

    And the other Israel are those who claim to be Israel and are not.

    But who is who ?

    According to what Christ Jesus gave in the Four Gospels, we can know who is who.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    We will never know Israel unless we are Israel because they are those who endured to the end. They are in Heaven. They aren't the Israel of God until they ARE in Heaven.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian

    I can see that have little understanding what Jesus pointed out about the one good fig tree and the bad fig tree.

    The good fig tree is the true Israel of God.
    The bad fig tree is those claiming to be Israel and are not.

    If you follow the scriptures throughout, you will be able to find who are the true Israel of God and those who claim to be Israel and are not.
     
  15. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    Oh, come on! Just because a person seems well behaved it does not mean that he belongs to Christ.
     
  16. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    I agree with this. :)
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian
    Look Christ Jesus gave so we would know, who the good fig tree Represents and who the bad fig tree Represents.

    Unless you don't believe Christ Jesus.

    When Jesus curse the fig tree, who do you suppose Jesus was actually cursing ?
    Mark 11:13 - 21. Jeremiah Chapter 24

    In John 8:33 - 47.
    Who do you suppose those are that are claiming to be the seed of Abraham ?
    Jesus tells them, you are of your father the devil. Note Jesus also tells them, in Verse 39, If you were ( meaning they are not Abraham's children) you would do the works of Abraham.
    Meaning they would do as Abraham would do.
    These are those who are claiming to be Israel are the bad fig tree.

    Note that over in Israel there are only two tribes there, one being Israel and the other tribe being Judah.

    So where are the other 10 tribes at in the world, if read the Scriptures God tells exactly where the other 10 tribes are at in the world.
     
    #117 Faithofchristian, Oct 17, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  18. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    Exactly? Will you share where? I am asking.
    Matthew 5:40
    1 Peter 3:15
     
  19. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    37,604
    Ratings:
    +4,221
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    And, I don't mean physically where.
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,461
    Ratings:
    +523
    Religion:
    Christian
    When the 10 tribes of Israel departed from Israel, they went over what is called in the Scriptures the Caucasus Mountains.

    The meaning of ( Caucasus) meaning white caucasians.also means Blood in the face. You know only the white race looks like having blood in the face, that is because the white race is so pale in the face as they look to have blood in the face.

    In the book of James wrote -"James a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting"

    Well we know there are only two tribes left over in Israel, one being the tribe of Israel and the other being the tribe of Judah.

    The other 10 tribes went over the Caucasus Mountains to settle what is now called, European countries.
    White caucasians.

    It use to be when a person was ask their nationality it would have
    Caucasian-- White √
    Black -- African
    Hispanic -- Mexican
    And so on.
    And all the person would do is place a check mark by what ever nationality they were.
     
    #120 Faithofchristian, Oct 17, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
Loading...