"America's Post-Christian Culture"

[ChristineM]

Anyone who's even moderately culturally savy is aware of Christianity's decline. People have been leaving it in striking numbers, all the while there's been an upsurge in those who profess atheism, agnosticism, or simply don't claim any belief at all.

"In the seven years between 2007 and 2014 the percentage of Christians in America fell by 8 percentage points to 70%. (Protestants comprise 46.5% , Catholics, 20.8%, and Muslims make up 1.0%)

About 5 million fewer Americans now identify as Christian compared to when the study was conducted in 2007.

It was discovered that this trend occurred in all regions of the US and among all ages and demographics.

In the South, those not-affiliated with religion - or as the researchers call them, "nones" - rose to 19% of the population, while in the Northeast they climbed to 25%.
source

​

And the salient point here is that the loss among Christians is exchanged for the increase among the unaffiliated.

My question: WHY?

What has White Mainline Christianity been doing wrong that it's losing members at such an alarming rate?

.

​

I don't think the majority of Christians do anything wrong (note the qualification majority). However what was relevant 2000 years ago, during the dark ages and up to the rise of science, technology and better education is no longer relevant.

 

[David T]

The only thing that I could ascertain from this otherwise incoherent post was that someone got their jimmies rustled.

Of course you don't comprehend. Your parroting memes are what imtelligent?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Religion isn't being pushed off stage. Its being rewritten, or updated, or repaired or prepared for the future.

By that comment I meant that the American Christian church is losing cultural hegemony every year, and based on trends over the last three decades or so, it is projected that the fraction of America self-identifying as Christians will fall below 50% in about a generation. This will be followed by openly atheistic political candidates being elected by voters of more different religious and irreligious stripes, and less religious influence of government

Eventually, Christianity will take its place among the other religions in America, none of them dictating policy or cultural norms.

Also the evangelicals are not decreasing in numbers, the very group that you denounce for sponsoring Trump. That is, one group which you say is the cause of the decrease is the group that is not decreasing in numbers.

I don't what your point is. Christians overall are decreasing in part due the behavior of a subset that aren't decreasing, or if they are, not much or as fast.

I agree with @Faithofchristian that Christians need to figure out how dinosaurs fit with the Bible, and I think that gradually all will. Just as Christians all believe bacteria exist and that the Earth goes around the sun that is what will happen.

Christianity is presently doing a cultural analog of biological evolution. As the environment in which is operates evolves, the church will experiment with adaptations to maximize its influence. I'm sure that you've noticed how many Christians of late have modified their hell theology to conform with increasing societal disapproval of a god alleged to preserve consciousness in souls after bodily death just to gratuitously torture them forever to the benefit of nobody but sadists.

So now we often see that after death, there is extinction of consciousness, or eternal separation from god.

This is rebranding to a kinder god, as the cereal manufacturers did back when sugar suddenly became a dirty word. Sugar Frosted Flakes became Frosted Flakes, and we started seeing names like Honey Crisp and Honey Smacks instead of their sugary equivalents. It happened to Kentucky Fried Chicken when fried became a dirty word. They became KFC. Sambo's became The Jolly Tiger. Aunt Jemima got a makeover.

Another example is that now that the word religion has negative connotations to many, people are telling us that they're spiritual, not religious.

It's all cultural adaptation to retain market share following shifting conditions.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

declines in membership in clubs and service organizations, such as the Rotary Club, the Masons, Lions Club, Moose Lodge, Kiwanis and other such organizations like that. People just don't want to join, or if they do join, they don't stay members for very long. The reasons may be varied, but some of it might also have to do with the population being more mobile these days.

I can give you a personal anecdote. My wife an I lived in a rural American community in the "Heartland," where we operated a small private business. We were set to join the Rotary Club there, but the first meeting opened with group prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance. We weren't interested in patriotic or religious displays, just community service, so we didn't return.

If people understood, taught about the first earth age, then it would be easy to explain what happened to the world of the dinosaurs, back in the first earth age. What happened that caused the dinosaurs to become extinct. It's all been recorded, foretold throughout the Bible.

Here's a nice example of adapting to scientific revelation - a form of Old Earth Creationism attempting to bridge the gap between the creation story in Genesis and the brute fact of dinosaur bones many tens of millions of years older than mankind.

And the Bible even predicted it.

I personally haven't seen the number of people drop as much as those who are not Christian or religious speaking up more. And the general other group is more verbal as well.

All you need do is look at the data from the relevant ARIS ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/aris030609.pdf ) and Pew studies ( “Nones” on the Rise ). This is the ARIS data summarized:

Adult population, total
1990: 175,440,000
2008: 228,182,000

Total Christian
1990: 151,225,000 (86.2%)
2008: 173,402,000 (76.0%)

None/ No religion, total
1990: 14,331,000 (8.2%)
2008: 34,169,000 (15.0%)​

The Pew data shows the "nones" rising to 20% in 2012 and 22.8% in 2014

 

[idav]

A few thoughts:

- minority religious don't come with the social influence and benefit that majority groups do. Sometimes the opposite: there can be a real social cost. This means that these minority groups already had some self-selection that meant the people who were in them weren't likely to be as affected by changes in those social factors.

- some religions are perpetuated through strong family pressure, rather than general societal forces. These familial factors probably take longer to change: generations instead of years.

- some religions are fed more by immigration than others. I think this might be the case with religions like Islam, Hinduism & Buddhism: the American-born kids may drift away from the family religion, but because there's a steady influx of immigrants of that religion, the overall number of adherents stays relatively constant or maybe even climbs a bit.

Some good points regarding religion being able to hold their ground. Something to keep in mind with the stat is the comparison of all religion compared to unaffiliated. If they jump ship, it is significant to remark if they go to another religion keeping that religion stable or become unaffiliated to any religion.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Anyone who's even moderately culturally savy is aware of Christianity's decline. People have been leaving it in striking numbers, all the while there's been an upsurge in those who profess atheism, agnosticism, or simply don't claim any belief at all.

"In the seven years between 2007 and 2014 the percentage of Christians in America fell by 8 percentage points to 70%. (Protestants comprise 46.5% , Catholics, 20.8%, and Muslims make up 1.0%)

About 5 million fewer Americans now identify as Christian compared to when the study was conducted in 2007.

It was discovered that this trend occurred in all regions of the US and among all ages and demographics.

In the South, those not-affiliated with religion - or as the researchers call them, "nones" - rose to 19% of the population, while in the Northeast they climbed to 25%.
source

​

And the salient point here is that the loss among Christians is exchanged for the increase among the unaffiliated.

My question: WHY?

What has White Mainline Christianity been doing wrong that it's losing members at such an alarming rate?

.

​

YOU said it--MAINLINE Christianity, the drug liberal scholars "main line" into their veins.

Biblical Christianity is growing at home and internationally.

No biblicist is upset if nominal Christians with liberal doctrines (abortion on demand, contraception on demand or even without request!) leave their "churches" to embrace a lack of faith. These people need salvation, not more church attendance!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some good points regarding religion being able to hold their ground. Something to keep in mind with the stat is the comparison of all religion compared to unaffiliated. If they jump ship, it is significant to remark if they go to another religion keeping that religion stable or become unaffiliated to any religion.

One thing I was trying to get at but maybe didn't express well is that I think more people are switching from religion to religion overall, which isn't necessarily captured in the stats on net change.

Six people leaving the Baptists for the Pentecostals while five people leave the Pentecostals for the Baptists looks the same in the overall stats as one person switching from Baptist to Pentecostal, but they're very different scenarios in terms of how "turbulent" the religious landscape is. My gut feeling is that there's much more switching from religion to religion than the net statistics suggest.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No biblicist is upset if nominal Christians with liberal doctrines (abortion on demand, contraception on demand or even without request!) leave their "churches" to embrace a lack of faith. These people need salvation, not more church attendance!

And as they leave, "biblicist" churches lose influence and revenue. If you guys are happy with this, then it sounds like a win-win.

 

[Holdasown]

I can give you a personal anecdote. My wife an I lived in a rural American community in the "Heartland," where we operated a small private business. We were set to join the Rotary Club there, but the first meeting opened with group prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance. We weren't interested in patriotic or religious displays, just community service, so we didn't return.



Here's a nice example of adapting to scientific revelation - a form of Old Earth Creationism attempting to bridge the gap between the creation story in Genesis and the brute fact of dinosaur bones many tens of millions of years older than mankind.

And the Bible even predicted it.



All you need do is look at the data from the relevant ARIS ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/aris030609.pdf ) and Pew studies ( “Nones” on the Rise ). This is the ARIS data summarized:

Adult population, total
1990: 175,440,000
2008: 228,182,000

Total Christian
1990: 151,225,000 (86.2%)
2008: 173,402,000 (76.0%)

None/ No religion, total
1990: 14,331,000 (8.2%)
2008: 34,169,000 (15.0%)​

The Pew data shows the "nones" rising to 20% in 2012 and 22.8% in 2014

I get the stats but in general, in my area, I don't see Christianity loosing any sort of foot hold. I do see more nones and others being vocal.

 

[Altfish]

I believe that it's a matter of people simply becoming more cultured and educated in the information age.

...and the internet, "Where religions come to die"

 

[Holdasown]

...and the internet, "Where religions come to die"

If not for the internet I wouldn't have my religion. I think it's like reading the Bible it can hurt or strengthen faith.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I can give you a personal anecdote. My wife an I lived in a rural American community in the "Heartland," where we operated a small private business. We were set to join the Rotary Club there, but the first meeting opened with group prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance. We weren't interested in patriotic or religious displays, just community service, so we didn't return.



Here's a nice example of adapting to scientific revelation - a form of Old Earth Creationism attempting to bridge the gap between the creation story in Genesis and the brute fact of dinosaur bones many tens of millions of years older than mankind.

And the Bible even predicted it.



All you need do is look at the data from the relevant ARIS ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/aris030609.pdf ) and Pew studies ( “Nones” on the Rise ). This is the ARIS data summarized:

Adult population, total
1990: 175,440,000
2008: 228,182,000

Total Christian
1990: 151,225,000 (86.2%)
2008: 173,402,000 (76.0%)

None/ No religion, total
1990: 14,331,000 (8.2%)
2008: 34,169,000 (15.0%)​

The Pew data shows the "nones" rising to 20% in 2012 and 22.8% in 2014

That all depends on what you consider mankind to be.
You have mankind of flesh and blood.
Then you have mankind which is spirit.

So it all depends on which mankind your referring to.

All flesh is not the same flesh, But there is one kind of flesh, of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
There are also Celestial bodies, and bodies Terrestrial, But the glory of the Celestial is one, and the glory of the Terrestrial is another.

Not all man are the same, you have man in the flesh body, and you man in the Spiritual body.

You man in the flesh and blood body.

You have man in the Spiritual Realm body.

So it all depends on what man your referring to.

Even Daniel the Prophet referred to Gabriel the Angel as a man. As did many other people, Who saw Gabriel referred to him As a man.

That's because the Angels have the same image and like that we have, but yet the Angels are in the Spiritual dimensional Realm and were in the physical dimensional Realm.

 

[Brickjectivity]

YOU said it--MAINLINE Christianity, the drug liberal scholars "main line" into their veins.

Biblical Christianity is growing at home and internationally.

No biblicist is upset if nominal Christians with liberal doctrines (abortion on demand, contraception on demand or even without request!) leave their "churches" to embrace a lack of faith. These people need salvation, not more church attendance!

You can call anything Biblical you wish, but your high numbers indicate a focus on membership goals and quotas. The liberals are the better scholars in my opinion, and I have been around long enough and seen enough to know. Weeds grow faster than plants, so don't be so quick to take growth as a good sign on its own. As for abortion, the liberal Christians do a better job preventing them.

 

[idav]

One thing I was trying to get at but maybe didn't express well is that I think more people are switching from religion to religion overall, which isn't necessarily captured in the stats on net change.

Six people leaving the Baptists for the Pentecostals while five people leave the Pentecostals for the Baptists looks the same in the overall stats as one person switching from Baptist to Pentecostal, but they're very different scenarios in terms of how "turbulent" the religious landscape is. My gut feeling is that there's much more switching from religion to religion than the net statistics suggest.

True that a religion seeming stable doesn’t mean they didn’t lose adherents but may be filled with fresher recruits. I did find it interesting that the number of significant losses corresponded to the increase in unaffiliated. Meaning it isn’t trying to account for switching teams but where unaffiliated is likely coming from.

 

[Father Heathen]

Of course you don't comprehend. Your parroting memes are what imtelligent?

I'll try to decipher. What "imtelligent" memes are you talking about?

 

[David T]

Since this is your reality, and that's all you know does better resolution make it more real? . Oh wait I understand why you made the parrot comment about being educated and cultured, max is is rendered in your head in big screen HD WITH SURROUND SOUND. church people are VHS. No wonder you find religion appalling lame. I totally agree, if reality is more accurately scientifically rendered the better the picture!!!!! In your head.

Sorry now I understand you two have totally different resolutions, different quality of screens, better stereo, all of it. Those backwoods primatives religious nut jobs with their VHS, cathode tube, am radio, BS. thanks I didn't fully understand I stand corrected.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Anyone who's even moderately culturally savy is aware of Christianity's decline. People have been leaving it in striking numbers, all the while there's been an upsurge in those who profess atheism, agnosticism, or simply don't claim any belief at all.

"In the seven years between 2007 and 2014 the percentage of Christians in America fell by 8 percentage points to 70%. (Protestants comprise 46.5% , Catholics, 20.8%, and Muslims make up 1.0%)

About 5 million fewer Americans now identify as Christian compared to when the study was conducted in 2007.

It was discovered that this trend occurred in all regions of the US and among all ages and demographics.

In the South, those not-affiliated with religion - or as the researchers call them, "nones" - rose to 19% of the population, while in the Northeast they climbed to 25%.
source

​

And the salient point here is that the loss among Christians is exchanged for the increase among the unaffiliated.

My question: WHY?

What has White Mainline Christianity been doing wrong that it's losing members at such an alarming rate?

.

​

Christianity has done nothing "wrong" in itself, and I'm not speaking about those wrongs involved with genocide or the Crusades or whatever the narratives say in the Old and New Testaments.

I think a few reasons for the decline is partially due to our advances in technology and further understanding of the world around us and how it comes together and works.

Another aspect is the complete confusion that Christians go through involving their own religion. When you have a religion with 36,000 plus denominations and and hundreds of accepted translations of the Bible that's their core scripture, it sends a message that there's nothing there other than their own interpretations.

The behavior of Christians is abysmal too as far as a religion goes touting peace and love but it contrasts sharply with the actual practices that are going on. On top of the list start with evangical preachers with public displays of insane greed and corruption for which many of the smaller churches attempt to emulate, the sheer lack of Education as it applies to the Sciences, and the reputation of arrogance, pride, egotism, and of course in house politics.



For those with the boots on the ground, and to emphasize this is just my perspective it may not be yours. ...is there are those who are not as concerned with the aforementioned also known as common churchgoers, it pretty much goes on a schedule of entering the building, grabbing the days program, opening hymm books sing for a while, stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down with each song. Tithing plates gets passed around, everybody puts money in. Pastor enters the room or gets off his chair in back,. Gives his sermon of the day, stand up for prayer, sit down, opening books sing some songs, stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, stand up sit down..... Then announcements are made, kneel for prayer, stand up when prayer concludes. then everybody heads for the door happy to get out of that place by 12 or 1 in the afternoon from 8 in the morning Shane under way out how wonderful the sermon was.

Then the real passion begins. football talk, the local bar, and life in general.

I think people had done this because they might feel a sense of obligation for tradition, however life doesn't seem to have as much free times that it used to. There are more important things to deal with, so traditions get
dropped and placed in mothballs for posterity.


I think people are basically waking up to the fact that this is an ancient religion that was around the time of Odin, Thor, and any kind of Greek or Roman god you can think of that had a an amazing run in history. However from a practical standpoint it just simply doesn't work so there's no need to bother with it anymore. Fin.

 

[RedDragon94]

What has White Mainline Christianity been doing wrong that it's losing members at such an alarming rate?

I believe Mainline Christianity (World Council of Churches type denominations) are more influenced by enlightenment thinking (Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire). When you have a church that basically says it's okay to doubt the Bible and doubt the God that Christianity is founded upon, it's like, why even care.

Not that all doubt is bad.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I don't think most people even know what they believe. Or will honestly admit to it even if they do know.

Beg pardon? I know just what I believe.

 

[BilliardsBall]

And as they leave, "biblicist" churches lose influence and revenue. If you guys are happy with this, then it sounds like a win-win.

Read what I wrote (sometime, you never do this!).

The liberals are leaving liberal churches. Biblicist, conservative churches thrive.