American Scientists Create First Synthetic Living Cell - Vatican Warns them to Not Play God

[Runlikethewind]

Actually, runlikethewind, I guess I mostly agree with you. Religion is everyone's business, and science does not have inherent moral guidelines, so it is proper to watch it in that sense.

That's basically all I am trying to argue for in this thread, that the Church should not be dismissed from the debate out of hand. And the Church is not free from criticism either.

That still doesn't quite excuse the RCC for its stance on birth planning in my eyes, but then again it is mostly the fault of those who listen to its advice on the matter.

I agree the Church does need to reexamine its entire approach to sexual morality and ethics and it needs to include in that examination a modern scientific understanding of sexuality.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Run with the wind- Good luck on all that with Benedict in office

 

[LuisDantas]

While I agree, Yosef, isn't it a bit simplistic to blame Ratzinger solely?

After all, he was elected by the other Cardinals. And most importantly, there is no outspoken resistance against his positions among the current Catholics.

It seems to me that this lack of questioning is the real root of the problems.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well he is a diehard conservative, and we all know Catholics really can't question the Pope, questioning the Pope is grounds for excommunication. The Pope is viewed as being the Vicar of Christ, so in a way I blame Benedict, but in a way I also blame the whole church system.

 

[Luminous]

The Vatican should get its facts straight. God played Human.

 

[LoTrobador]

and we all know Catholics really can't question the Pope

If I got a nickel every time I've heard a Catholic questioning one of the Popes...

questioning the Pope is grounds for excommunication.

Coud you provide examples of situations in the 20th-21st century when excommunication was inflicted or incurred as a result of questioning the Pope, or an official Church document stating that questioning the Pope is grounds for excommunication?

 

[McBell]

Coud you provide examples of situations in the 20th-21st century when excommunication was inflicted or incurred as a result of questioning the Pope, or an official Church document stating that questioning the Pope is grounds for excommunication?

Nice conditional modifiers.

 

[LoTrobador]

Nice conditional modifiers.

I could have written "examples of situations in the 19th-21st century when excommunicatio maior or excommunicatio minor was inflicted or incurred as a result of questioning the Pope and the excommunicate became either a vitandus or toleratus".

 

[McBell]

I could have written "examples of situations in the 19th-21st century when excommunicatio maior or excommunicatio minor was inflicted or incurred as a result of questioning the Pope and the excommunicate became either a vitandus or toleratus".

and I would still reply with "Nice conditional modifiers."

 

[LuisDantas]

Still, Mestemia, it is at the very least a sign that the RCC has improved its stance on these matters.

 

[McBell]

Still, Mestemia, it is at the very least a sign that the RCC has improved its stance on these matters.

Or it has to do something to slow down the declining number of members...

 

[Guitar's Cry]

They're gonna cover up the sex abuse scandal and then tell us what's right and what's wrong? Yeah, right.

Isn't that an ad hominem argument? It's similar to saying "Why should you be suggesting what we should be doing for the environment? Didn't you cheat on your wife?"

Certainly the sex abuse scandal suggests a breach of ethics, but it is unrelated to the moral considerations of artificial life.

The creation of synthetic life is an incredible achievement. The Vatican needs to mind its own business and leave the science to the scientists.

Then ought the scientists leave ethics up to the ethicists?

It's dangerous, in my opinion, to have a kind of laissez-faire attitude towards science; technology is a powerful thing that can be both positively used and negatively misused. A single group should not have control over what science can and can't do and how it is used, instead, humanity in general should be able to contribute to the discussion.

 

[Runlikethewind]

Or it has to do something to slow down the declining number of members...

The global Catholic population is actually growing, especially in Africa and Asia. Perhaps part of the reason why the Church doesn't resort to excommunication so much is that it is no longer the punishment it used to be. Back in the days when the Church held more power an excommunication meant that a person would find it difficult to make a living. Church teaching at the time stressed a narrow interpretation of nulla salus extra ecclesiam which meant that a sentence of excommunication meant a sentence to hell. Neither of these apply today. The Church has a broader understanding of nulla salus extra ecclesiam and one no longer needs to be in good standing with the Church to make a living.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would have thought that Bible alone Christians and young earthers et al are likely to cause more trouble for these scientists, than the Vatican. The Vatican tends to wait things out before acting.

I have no Idea how other extreme religions view this?

Creating life of any sort has a certain religious dimension, as it calls into question our basic relationship to God.

 

[McBell]

The global Catholic population is actually growing, especially in Africa and Asia. Perhaps part of the reason why the Church doesn't resort to excommunication so much is that it is no longer the punishment it used to be. Back in the days when the Church held more power an excommunication meant that a person would find it difficult to make a living. Church teaching at the time stressed a narrow interpretation of nulla salus extra ecclesiam which meant that a sentence of excommunication meant a sentence to hell. Neither of these apply today. The Church has a broader understanding of nulla salus extra ecclesiam and one no longer needs to be in good standing with the Church to make a living.

well duh, they stopped kicking out anyone who voiced an opinion the current pope disliked.

That had to be a huge help.

 

[Beyondo]

This is exactly the kind of attitude the Vatican is warning against. The Vatican says if the science and technology are used for good then by all means continue. But don't be so reckless in the pursuit of science that you risk a disaster. I mean on the one hand you say science should go forward unrestricted and you argue this because it is beneficial to people, saving them from hunger and disease. But then on the other hand you don't care about taking any sort of precautions to prevent hunger and disease if the science should get out of hand, just hope for the best. Your contradicting yourself and that position is reckless, careless and not for the betterment of humanity.

If the goal of science is to better humanity then restrictions must be in place to that end. Reasonable people can and will disagree on what those restrictions should be but I see no reason why the Vatican should be left out of the discussion. For example, I think we can all reasonable agree that innocent people should not be used as test subjects without their consent. I think that when the Vatican extends those protections to embryos and embryonic stem cells people can reasonable disagree as to whether they qualify as innocent people in need of protection.

I'm not saying that reasonable precautions shouldn't be taken, but I detest the scare tactics of those against genetic engineering. Science should continue on its course of developing synthetic life and do so to the point of even creating sentient life.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Be careful when playing god.

Grey goo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[logician]

Church warns cell scientists not to play God - WorldWide Religious News

The Vatican has stated that the creation of synthetic life by scientists in the U.S can be a breakthrough if used properly, but advised that only God can create life. Is the Vatican's ignorance boundless? Seriously, they talking out of their butts, and they need to mind their own business. The Catholic church's sex abuse scandals have exposed it as a morally vacuuous establishment, and they need to butt out of the way of scientific development. They are not qualified to act in any form of authority over scientific advancement nor of moral guidance. Period.

Since the Vatican has been implicated in a conspiracy of crimes against children, I don't think it is wise for scientists to be taking their advise.:sleep:

 

[Smoke]

From: Pontifical Academy of Sciences - Wikipedia

Fisichella is not a scientist; he's an archbishop. And he's not a member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. He's the head of the Pontifical Academy for Life, which is charged with promoting the "bioethics" of the Vatican.

 

[Smoke]

While I agree, Yosef, isn't it a bit simplistic to blame Ratzinger solely?

After all, he was elected by the other Cardinals. And most importantly, there is no outspoken resistance against his positions among the current Catholics.

It seems to me that this lack of questioning is the real root of the problems.

Ratzinger was JP2's right-hand man, and is no more reactionary than his predecessor. He just has a less appealing personality. Wojtyla was every bit as reactionary as Ratzinger is. Before he died, liberal Catholics tried to pretend otherwise, like conservative Democrats who blamed Eleanor Roosevelt for all of FDR's liberal policies. Oh, I wish the Holy Father wouldn't listen to that horrible Cardinal Ratzinger. Ratzinger didn't make the Vatican what it is. If anything, the reverse is true.