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Alternate Beliefs - To not believe something exists is to deny its existance.
- Thread starter Pah
- Start date
Corban
Member
pah said:
of course it is, to not believe is the same as to deny. You don't believe santa exists that means you also deny his existance, its the same. The effect of the idea of santa is not the same as his being, therefore even though you accept the effect of his idea, you still deny his existance.
Ok. I'll start the Santa Bashing: He has no sense of fashion. I mean, his outfit went out of style in the 1880's, for crying out loud!pah said:
Seriously, is there a significant distinction between "to not believe something exists" on the one hand and "to deny its existence" on the other? I don't believe in Santa and I would deny the existence of Santa both. But maybe I'm not getting the distinction? Can you please further explain that distinction?
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Santa Clause does indeed have a large affect on Christmas...or at least the idea of him does. Just because 'he' affects the physical world, doesn't mean 'he' exists as any more than a twinkle in some tyke's eye.
linwood
Well-Known Member
pah said:
The way I see it dis-believing in Santa Claus isn`t exactly the same as denying him.
I cannot really go and search all of the North Pole to determine whether or not he`s there and even if I could Santas magical powers may just be concealing his workshop from me.
However Santa has never actually performed the duties the legends of him claim he does or can do and the legends themselves go against any and all natural laws I`m aware of.
I mean Santa has never actually come to my house and left presents.
I`ve never seen a reindeer fly.
No way someone as fat as Santa reportedly is could fit down my chimney .
How could santa possibly visit each and every home in the world in the span of 24 hours?
Not to mention all those hanging out at the mall who pretend to be the real Santa.
So when I take what I know to be true and compare it to what is reported about Santa I can see that the possibilty of Santa actually existing is nil.
But like I said..you can never be 100% positive Santa doesn`t exist because you cannot provide absolute proof of his non-existence.
Corban
Member
linwood said:
but you can still deside to not believe in him based on the evidence you have and if you make the decision to not believe in him you deny his existance. If your still open to the possibility of his existence, then you don't deny his existence and on the same hand you can't say you don't believe in him, you would have to say your undecided. Making the decision to not believe wether you have all the evidence or not is as the same time making the decision to deny him.
And as to this idea that you can't say there is no santa because you haven't searched every part of the north pole is ridiculous. Do you not believe water is wet because you haven't felt every drop on earth. Do you not believe fire is hot because you haven't felt every fire. Have you tried jumping off every cliff, you should, or else how can you believe in this silly gravity thing if you haven't tested it everywhere.
That's just a dumb excuse for someone who can't make up their mind. We have enough evidence to make a decision about santa, and about many things including God.
Hirohito18200
Member
2 things:
To deny Santa's existence isn't the same thing as denying him. To deny him would be to accept his existence but to refute some part of his attributed works, or something like that. To deny his existence would be just that, to refuse to believe that he exists at all. And as to proving his non-existence:
Assumptions: If santa exists, he will behave in a manner fitting to his proposed existence. If santa behaves in a manner fitting to his proposed existence, he will create enough toys for the entire human race, fit them into a sled and board it, pilot the sled through the air with the propultion of twelve magically enchanted flying reindeer, stop at the residence of each human deemed worthy enough to receive a toy, decend down through their chimney, deposit the toy, and ascend through the chimney and repeat the process. If santa does all of this, there will be toys present for all worthy humans after Santa concludes his work. It has been stated by certain organizations that aproximately 3.5 billion humans do not receive toys for christmas each year. It can be assumed by simple statistical analysis that at least some of the humans that did not receive gifts behaved in a manner much similar, if not identical or surperior, to that of at least some humans who did receive toys for christmas. By this assumption, it can be determined that Santa did not behave in a manner fitting to his proposed existence, violating assumption one, and thus proving that Santa does not exist. Huzzah!
To deny Santa's existence isn't the same thing as denying him. To deny him would be to accept his existence but to refute some part of his attributed works, or something like that. To deny his existence would be just that, to refuse to believe that he exists at all. And as to proving his non-existence:
Assumptions: If santa exists, he will behave in a manner fitting to his proposed existence. If santa behaves in a manner fitting to his proposed existence, he will create enough toys for the entire human race, fit them into a sled and board it, pilot the sled through the air with the propultion of twelve magically enchanted flying reindeer, stop at the residence of each human deemed worthy enough to receive a toy, decend down through their chimney, deposit the toy, and ascend through the chimney and repeat the process. If santa does all of this, there will be toys present for all worthy humans after Santa concludes his work. It has been stated by certain organizations that aproximately 3.5 billion humans do not receive toys for christmas each year. It can be assumed by simple statistical analysis that at least some of the humans that did not receive gifts behaved in a manner much similar, if not identical or surperior, to that of at least some humans who did receive toys for christmas. By this assumption, it can be determined that Santa did not behave in a manner fitting to his proposed existence, violating assumption one, and thus proving that Santa does not exist. Huzzah!
OK. I now see the distinction between disbelieving in Santa and denying him. Thank you for making that clear, Linwood.linwood said:
I'd have to say that I disbelieve in Santa --- it's very improbable that he exists --- but I don't deny that it's possible he exists.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Corban-- Beleiving that Santa exists is not a decision, it is a judgement. One can't "choose" to believe in Santa to any extent greater than that to which one can delude oneself.
To classify myself as "undecided" would be to equate my level of confidence on God's nonexistence to my level of confidence on how many people there are in my dorm building right now. I have no idea how many people are in my building right now, but I am very confident that the JCIG is a myth with no higher a probability of existing than Zeus or Thor.
Well, with the limited knowledge I have, I know that not all water is wet--at very low temperatures, in fact, water becomes quite dry (taking the form of dry powdered snow and so forth). The point is, in a philosophical sense, since we are not all-knowing beings and our intellect is imperfect, there is always uncertainty in what we predict will be true (i.e. that all water will be wet always). That said, one can have different levels of confidence in something being true or not true. I think we all have a very high level of confidence that the sun will rise tomorrow, and we all have a very high level of confidence that the Easter Bunny isn't real. I have a high level of confidence that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God was created by man-made mythology, just like Zeus or Thor.Corban said:
To classify myself as "undecided" would be to equate my level of confidence on God's nonexistence to my level of confidence on how many people there are in my dorm building right now. I have no idea how many people are in my building right now, but I am very confident that the JCIG is a myth with no higher a probability of existing than Zeus or Thor.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Frustrating...I replied already but my post didn't show up... 
The current form of Santa Claus is based of some of the true stories of Saint Nicholas who is real. Who did have a beard. Who did promote many things for children and had a special devotion to the infant Jesus and as a Bishop of the Catholic Church was involved with the Christmas devotions. If you read the omnibus of Saint Nicholas you will find many miraculous events in his life that are a foundation for the early ideas of Santa Claus. The name Santa Claus means Saint Nicholas.
Christopher Krajewski
Member
Santa Claus exists in my imagination. But you waste my mind now; I bwliwvw Christmas has gone now to higher plains of THINKING.
Like a woman exists in my imagination. Is that being an atheist, or just dancing the Ramba?
Like a woman exists in my imagination. Is that being an atheist, or just dancing the Ramba?