Allah, Yahweh, or Jehovah

[rosends]

which is how we know the vowels to add to the written YHWH.

The vowels attaches to the English letters YHWH (themselves not precisely equivalent to the Hebrew letters) are actually Masoretic importations from the word use to replace the 4 letter name when reading the text. The word "Ado-nai" is used in place of trying to pronounce that which we are forbidden to say. The vowel points of Ado-nai (ah, oh, aw) when combined with the 4 letter English construct lead one to a word akin to "Yahowa" or later "Jahova". This has nothing to do with how any group actually said the 4 letter name. The notion of "Yahweh" comes from guesses based on other regional deity names and the linguistic meaning and therefore conjugation-based pronunciation of the letters.

 

[outhouse]

It's not about religion

It is 100% about religion.

Only religion defines the concepts.

but about understanding the difference between the use of the word god as a common noun

No.

Its about the different definitions ONLY people, give to these many definitions and concepts.

and using the word to denote a specific name.

Specific is unsubstantiated.


Israelites plagiarized Canaanite deities, and compiled two deities into one during the exile.

Christians plagiarized Judaism's later concept.

islam plagiarized them all.


WE have a clear evolution of concepts for over 1500 years that all have different definitions, with no specific name, but many.

 

[outhouse]

Yahweh was only equated to El in the days of Hosea, if not as late as Isiah

Good reply.

Yes we see some Israelites giving all Els attributes to Yahweh around 800BC but that was not all of the people.

Even during King Josiah's reforms, not all got behind monotheism to Yahweh alone.

 

[Glaurung]

It is 100% about religion.

Only religion defines the concepts

What are you going on about? Proper nouns are capitalised in English, God is often used as a proper noun therefore it is capitalised.

Israelites plagiarized Canaanite deities, and compiled two deities into one during the exile.

Christians plagiarized Judaism's later concept.

islam plagiarized them all.

And even so, it's all absolutely and utterly irrelevant as far as our orthographic conventions are concerned.

 

[outhouse]

It's not about religion but about understanding the difference between the use of the word god as a common noun, and using the word to denote a specific name.

But there is more then just understanding the difference between noun and denoting a specific name.

 

[Glaurung]

But there is more then just understanding the difference between noun and denoting a specific name.

There's really not. Whatever the realities of the Abrahamic deity, it has no relevance on the written conventions of English and the Latin script. Grammatically, the word god can be a common noun or a proper name. I don't even have to be speaking of any any specific deity, God would still be capitalised even if I'm speaking of Shiva. The question is whether or not the noun is proper or common, that's all.

 

[outhouse]

, the word god can be a common noun or a proper name

Yet Yahweh and El and Baal and Asherah were all proper names of a family of deities worshiped before monotheism.

El was the father, Yahweh and Baal brothers, and Asherah wife to both El and Yahweh.

But yes I will agree "god" is a concept not a name.

I don't even have to be speaking of any any specific deity

I understand where your coming from now. Agreed

 

[Glaurung]

Yet Yahweh and El and Baal and Asherah were all proper names of a family of deities worshiped before monotheism.

We are discussing questions of English grammar, the history of Canaanite religion has no relevance. God, whenever it is used as a proper noun is capitalised because the conventions of written English hold that all proper nouns are capitalised.

Why you think that long gone pantheons are somehow relevant to the capitalisation conventions of the English language is beyond me. We are not discussing the origins of any deity.

 

[The Hammer]

Allah, Yahweh, or Jehovah. Which one and why?

None of them. I prefer Odin, Thor, Frigg, Freya, Heimdall, Tyr, Loki etc etc etc.
And the why is because I connect and relate to them.

 

[outhouse]

We are discussing questions of English grammar

I understand where your coming from now. Agreed

 

[Aupmanyav]

Today people ask, what religion are you. Ancients ask each other, what is the name of your God.

The most common question asked by ancient people (and even now the village people in India) is 'Where do you hail from?' (What is the name of your city/village?) - "Kunse gaon ra hau?" or "Kiyo gaon hai aparo?" (Rajasthani)

 

[rusra02]

Allah, Yahweh, or Jehovah. Which one and why?

I believe Jehovah is the only true God. (John 17:3) Yahweh is an attempt to transliterate the divine Name. The Name occurs some 7,000 times in the Bible. Allah is not a name but simply means God. Jehovah is by far the most common way God's Name has been translated into English and with some variations into many other languages. Only Jehovah has backed up his claim of Godship, IMO, by reliably fulfilling prophecy, and by making his Name known through his mighty deeds. No other god can prove their godship, IMO.

 

[Rival]

I believe Jehovah is the only true God. (John 17:3) Yahweh is an attempt to transliterate the divine Name. The Name occurs some 7,000 times in the Bible. Allah is not a name but simply means God. Jehovah is by far the most common way God's Name has been translated into English and with some variations into many other languages. Only Jehovah has backed up his claim of Godship, IMO, by reliably fulfilling prophecy, and by making his Name known through his mighty deeds. No other god can prove their godship, IMO.

Actually, in the Bible it's Cyrus of Persia (A Zoroastrian) who frees the Jews from captivity in Babylon. He said his God (Ahura Mazda) had told him to let the Jews go and rebuild their Temple.

In The Bible Cyrus says: "The Lord God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and has charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem which is in Judah."

"In the first year of King Cyrus, Cyrus the king issued a decree: ‘Concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, let the temple, the place where sacrifices are offered, be rebuilt and let its foundations be retained, its height being 60 cubits and its width 60 cubits; with three layers of huge stones and one layer of timbers. And let the cost be paid from the royal treasury. ‘Also let the gold and silver utensils of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be returned and brought to their places in the temple in Jerusalem; and you shall put them in the house of God.’ (Ezra 6:3-5)

In other words, some Jews seemed to think his God was the same as theirs, though the two Gods were not the same.

The Magi who attend Yeshua's birth and do obeisance to him were Zoroastrian astronomers.

 

[rusra02]

Actually, in the Bible it's Cyrus of Persia (A Zoroastrian) who frees the Jews from captivity in Babylon. He said his God (Ahura Mazda) had told him to let the Jews go and rebuild their Temple.

In The Bible Cyrus says: "The Lord God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and has charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem which is in Judah."

"In the first year of King Cyrus, Cyrus the king issued a decree: ‘Concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, let the temple, the place where sacrifices are offered, be rebuilt and let its foundations be retained, its height being 60 cubits and its width 60 cubits; with three layers of huge stones and one layer of timbers. And let the cost be paid from the royal treasury. ‘Also let the gold and silver utensils of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took from the temple in Jerusalem and brought to Babylon, be returned and brought to their places in the temple in Jerusalem; and you shall put them in the house of God.’ (Ezra 6:3-5)

In other words, some Jews seemed to think his God was the same as theirs, though the two Gods were not the same.

The Magi who attend Yeshua's birth and do obeisance to him were Zoroastrian astronomers.

Actually, Ezra 1:2 says; “This is what King Cyrus of Persia says, ‘Jehovah the God of the heavens has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has commissioned me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah."
Some 200 years before his birth, Jehovah prophesied through Isaiah that this would occur, and mentioned Cyrus by name. (Isaiah 45:1-6) Though Cyrus apparently never worshipped Jehovah, I believe Jehovah used Cyrus to accomplish his purpose to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. In my opinion, a remarkable prophecy was fulfilled in Cyrus in every detail.

 

[Rival]

Actually, Ezra 1:2 says; “This is what King Cyrus of Persia says, ‘Jehovah the God of the heavens has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has commissioned me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah."
Some 200 years before his birth, Jehovah prophesied through Isaiah that this would occur, and mentioned Cyrus by name. (Isaiah 45:1-6) Though Cyrus apparently never worshipped Jehovah, I believe Jehovah used Cyrus to accomplish his purpose to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. In my opinion, a remarkable prophecy was fulfilled in Cyrus in every detail.

I was actually being quite lighthearted, but it just means that the Bible is inaccurate. It has Cyrus say these things about Yahweh, and proclaim that Yahweh has told him these things; but in reality we know Cyrus had never worshipped a God of this name and was a Zoroastrian, so he would not have said these things. Either way, he gave the Jews the right to go back to their homeland and rebuild their temple. I like that.

 

[Rival]

@rusra02 Also, you do know that there are 'two Isaiahs' right? It would be perfectly possible for the second Isaiah to name Cyrus after the event had actually occurred.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@rusra02 Also, you do know that there are 'two Isaiahs' right? It would be perfectly possible for the second Isaiah to name Cyrus after the event had actually occurred.

Prophecy is so much easier when aided by hindsight.

 

[ImaTroll]

Ahura Mazda forever

Honda Civic

 

[rusra02]

@rusra02 Also, you do know that there are 'two Isaiahs' right? It would be perfectly possible for the second Isaiah to name Cyrus after the event had actually occurred.

I was actually being quite lighthearted, but it just means that the Bible is inaccurate. It has Cyrus say these things about Yahweh, and proclaim that Yahweh has told him these things; but in reality we know Cyrus had never worshipped a God of this name and was a Zoroastrian, so he would not have said these things. Either way, he gave the Jews the right to go back to their homeland and rebuild their temple. I like that.

The Bible records other instances where human rulers were impelled to acknowledge Jehovah as God, even though they worshiped other gods. Nebuchadnezzar is one example. (Daniel 3:28,29)

 

[rusra02]

@rusra02 Also, you do know that there are 'two Isaiahs' right? It would be perfectly possible for the second Isaiah to name Cyrus after the event had actually occurred.

I don't subscribe to the two Isaiah's theory. The evidence weighs heavily against such a theory, IMO. "Consider the testimony of first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus. He not only indicates that the prophecies in Isaiah pertaining to Cyrus were written in the eighth century B.C.E. but also says that Cyrus was aware of these prophecies. “These things Cyrus knew,” Josephus writes, “from reading the book of prophecy which Isaiah had left behind two hundred and ten years earlier.” According to Josephus, knowledge of these prophecies may even have contributed to Cyrus’ willingness to send the Jews back to their homeland, for Josephus writes that Cyrus was “seized by a strong desire and ambition to do what had been written.”—JewishAntiquities, Book XI, chapter 1, paragraph 2." - IP2 pp 10-14