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Featured All roads lead to the same God ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Barry Johnson, May 3, 2021.

  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Is that another exclusive truth claim lol I agree actually.
     
  2. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    My first thought is that you may have misinterpreted my objections, on another thread of yours, to the exclusivist nature of some "bible-believing" evangelical Protestants.

    Believing that Jesus is the only way to heaven does not require one to strut around claiming smugly to be "saved", unlike everyone else, nor does it require one to dismiss all other faiths as wrong and valueless.

    It seems to me quite ridiculous - and unpleasant - to think that nobody but one little group, following one set of doctrines, can attain heaven and eternal life. What happens to everyone else in this world? Are they all damned to eternal torment?

    What about Islam? Doesn't that similarly claim that following the guidance of the Prophet and submission to God is the only route to paradise? So why is Christianity "right" and Islam "wrong? Both sets of claims come from their respective scriptures and both seem to be equally plausible - or implausible.
     
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  3. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Jesus went first to his own in answer to the long faith and struggle of the descendants of Abraham. The Son (and his original Gospel message) was the answer and the reason for their faith. The idea was that they were supposed to receive him and preach his message to the world from Jerusalem.

    * Coming to the knowledge that he was going to be rejected and killed as prophets before him had been mistreated, is NOT the same as saying it was Gods will that the son be rejected and killed. The cross has great meaning but a condition for Gods forgiveness isn't one of them.

    * With Jesus we were supposed to become like little children in trusting his "good news" Gospel of the Kingdom. We were supposed to be starting over again fresh and apart from the hopelessly complicated and thick headed theology of the Israelites.

    * Speculation about Jesus, his identity and the meaning of his teachings began immediately after he ascended into Heaven. Personalities rose up and influenced the development of a religion about Jesus.


    I always knew the Old Testament was very flawed and that the Bible is not a document of perfection.



    .
     
  4. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    In our discussions about Jesus I've quoted Jesus. It would take to long to express by beliefs. I don't have a "guru". I do have extrabiblical sources of revelation that clarifies the confusion for me. I've never believed that God wrote the Bible or any other book on earth.
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Believing that Jesus is the only way to heaven does not require one to strut around claiming smugly to be "saved", unlike everyone else///

    This is an unfortunate assumption you have arrived at .
    There is no smugness . Just relief and Joy
    This verse explains the position I hold. Verse 9 is key .
    Eph 2
    5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    ,/// nor does it require one to dismiss all other faiths as wrong and valueless.//
    This depends on which part you are referring to . Do I say that all parts of other religions are horrendous? no . There are some nice things . The point is if said religion leads the individual away from the Truth .

    //It seems to me quite ridiculous - and unpleasant - to think that nobody but one little group, following one set of doctrines, can attain heaven and eternal life. What happens to everyone else in this world? Are they all damned to eternal torment?//
    My point is that its only through Jesus is salvation available. All other options are false by logic if this is true . And yes ,by not going through Jesus they are dammed.
    Exactly as Jesus said they would be . John 3

    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18¶He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    //What about Islam? Doesn't that similarly claim that following the guidance of the Prophet and submission to God is the only route to paradise? So why is Christianity "right" and Islam "wrong? Both sets of claims come from their respective scriptures and both seem to be equally plausible - or implausible//
    You can't have both truth claims be contradicting each other and both be true at the same time Islam is the complete opposite . It says Jesus is not God. That Jesus did not die for the sins of the world and did not raise from the dead . You couldn't get any more opposite if you tried .
     
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Whats it called ?
     
  7. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    I’m just a disciple of Jesus. I grew up attending a Methodist church occasionally and reluctantly. I’ve been a member of Presbyterian church because my wife wanted to raise the kids in church. All 3 of my kids are currently atheist/agnostic.
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But Jehovah’s witnesses say they are a diciple of Jesus, it doesn't mean much today with all the cults ect . What's your religion called?
     
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist You are safe

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    You're right. Jesus is the only way to heaven for those who believe that is true. If someone doesn't play baaket ball but bowling instead, the rules of BB won't apply to the bowler.

    Even if one is a teacher, he won't follow bb rules to educate his students.

    It's not relevant. Let me ask, why phrase as if it were the "law of the land." Only citizens abide by the rules. Everyone else need not.
     
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    ///You're right. Jesus is the only way to heaven for those who believe that is true.//
    Ok how does that make sense to you ? Its not logical . If its true then its true for everyone .
     
  11. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    The notion that followers of other faith are all damned is something I find personally repugnant and totally at variance with the concept of a loving and merciful God, as described in both OT and NT.

    It seems to me far more plausible that there are various ways to reach God. To say "no one comes to the Father except through me" can be taken two ways. It could be exclusivist, or it could mean instead that God-made-Man also in some way informs and inspires people of other faiths too. "Other sheep I have that are not of this fold."

    It seems to me that if one believes in a loving and merciful God, then the second interpretation is the only one possible.
     
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  12. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    I’m just a disciple of the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. I’m not a member of an institutional church.
     
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  13. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But they are all contradicting each other . Your view is impossible because each religion has an exclusive path/ goal and a way of appropriation. Even the philosophy that says all religions are leading to God is exclusive and contradicts all others.
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist You are safe

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    Each person sees life in a different way. Their "truth/s" work for them and they can't see it any other way-that's how they were born and/or raised to see how life works. Scripture is not true for every person. In other words, no one should broadstroke everyone else's truth(s) with the same foundation. Biblical concepts, for example, have no place in my life and reality. I can't imagine any of what's in the bible pertains to how I understand life works. Everyone is different.

    Life exists without us, the bible, and our concepts of god. It's highly unethical to expect our interpretation of life to be that of all people.
     
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    It seems to me that there are as many gods as there are believers, and there's exactly one path to each of them.
     
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  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But you deny the only way that a person can be saved today ( according to the Scriptures) 1 cor 1.15 . 1,-4 .
    Romans 10.9,10 . There is no other way to recieve the Holy spirit today . Yes I know you reject pretty much the entire NT on this but still .
     
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But gravity is true even if we don't like it right? I may choose to believe i can fly if I jumped out of an aeroplane with no parachute. I may even debate with others about if its true or not . I may really ,really ,really believe it . But regardless its not true . Somethings really are true and false. Can I be both 10 years old and 47 years old at the same time . Its true that I'm 47 . But I could really really really believe I'm 10 . How old am I truthfully? and in reality ?
     
  18. Pete in Panama

    Pete in Panama Active Member

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    Yet another way we can look at this is to see no conflict between the religions with lots of conflict between the followers of the various groups. Quoting Jesus saying "I am the way" overlooks the idea that he was speaking as the continuing revelation --a permanent reality-- and not as a single human who lived a couple thousand years ago.

    What I'm saying is that anyone who loves a good fight can make up differences & for those of us who care about what's really being said the only way is harmony.
     
  19. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    That's your opinion, the religion of Jesus was Generic. Anyone in the world can be born again of the spirit and commit to a personal relationship with God.
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    all roads lead to God

    but some choose the long way around
    and then they don't live long enough to get there

    quote me
     
    #40 Thief, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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