All Religions

[Majikthise]

I was raised protestant until the age of 18 and considered myself christian until the age of about 25. Then slowly moved to agnosticism until becoming an atheist at 29. I'm 40 now and still a hardcore non-believer.

 

[No*s]

99% of people with a religion, believe in a religion that was chosen for them by someone else, and all of them can say,"I did not choose my name, my mother or father, or my religion".
Who said? "Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you a (your religion here) for life".
If all the children in the world were not taught about religion, it would die in one generation.
All this may be true, but if you have been captured, you will not agree with one word of this.
PS. Everyone is born an Atheist.

That assumes the validity of atheism. For those of us who have had odd experiences, supernatural and/or mystical, then it is less convincing. It would be a small jump for religion simply to be restarted with the experience of God.

 

[Revasser]

I think you'll find, shytot, that there are many people who were not born into the religion they currently follow (or any religion at all, for that matter). I know I certainly wasn't and there a number of other people here who were not.

Also, if no children were raised religious for a generation, religion would still be around. To get rid of all current religion completely, you would have to destroy all the primary religious sources, all the records of there having been religion, and remove the memory of religion from every single person. And even then, new belief systems would spring up anyway as people used their minds.

As to religions teaching we are apart from nature.. well, it certainly isn't true for all of them. My religion certainly doesn't teach anything of the sort, it teaches we are as much a part of nature and the greater universe as everything else and that this is a good thing.

 

[James the Persian]

I'll just pipe up and point out that I am also an adult convert to my religion. Having been on this site for a while now it seems to me like an awful lot (probably the majority) of the people here were not born into their current faith.

James

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

I'll just pipe up and point out that I am also an adult convert to my religion. Having been on this site for a while now it seems to me like an awful lot (probably the majority) of the people here were not born into their current faith.

Yup, seems the same from where I'm sitting. On a multi-faith message board its to be expected really. :bounce

 

[Popeyesays]

99% of people with a religion, believe in a religion that was chosen for them by someone else, and all of them can say,"I did not choose my name, my mother or father, or my religion".
Who said? "Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you a (your religion here) for life".
If all the children in the world were not taught about religion, it would die in one generation.
All this may be true, but if you have been captured, you will not agree with one word of this.
PS. Everyone is born an Atheist.

"Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you a National Socialist for life." Josef Goebbles, Reich Minister for Propaganda, 1936

Regards,
Scott

 

[lilithu]

99% of people with a religion, believe in a religion that was chosen for them by someone else, and all of them can say,"I did not choose my name, my mother or father, or my religion".

Choosing your own religion is over-rated. It's what you choose to do with your religion that really matters.

If all the children in the world were not taught about religion, it would die in one generation.

Yeah, yeah. People have been predicting that for centuries. What about all those books that have come out recently that show how we are hard-wired towards belief.

All this may be true, but if you have been captured, you will not agree with one word of this.

Or maybe it's just not true. The problem with that argument is that you win either way. If people agree with you, you're right. If people disagree with you, you're right. If there's no possible scenario in which you may be proven wrong, then it's not a valid argument.

PS. Everyone is born an Atheist.

Spoken like a true believer. All you've done is substitute one absolute truth for another.

 

[lilithu]

The first thing a religion tries to teach us is that we are NOT part of nature, that we are somehow far above all things to do with the earth and the cosmos,the world and everything in it was all finished by the time we arrived, and in the short time we have been here, we have sorted out the main problem, and that is 'what happens when we die'
of course we all have different ideas of what happens, but for practical purposes the problem has been solved, WE DONT DIE, the body dies, but not the real us, we go off to join some wonderful something that we dont fully understand, ( because it all means something different to all of us),
some go to sit next to God, (a bit crowded, but we can all push up)
some go to an Orgy (even if your 90 when you died, you have still got to attend) some become grasshoppers or beetles, the list of destinations is endless, THANK GOD I AM AN ATHEIST, I'm not going anywhere.

From this post it is obvious that your rant against religion in general is really a rant against the particular religion to which you were exposed. NONE of the Eastern traditions teach that we are not a part of nature. Many of the Eastern traditions and most/all of the Pagan traditions emphasize that we are a part of nature. Many teach that THERE IS NO DUALISM between "soul" and "body." We are not separate from the whole. Has it occured to you that perhaps more exists than just the little bit that you are aware of?

 

[shytot]

Of coarse I 'rant against religion in general' it is all hogwash, think about what
they are telling you, just stop and think for 5 minutes, everyone is afraid of what will
happen when they die, it has been like that since humans became human, so they make
up nice stories to tell children, and to make themselves feel better, it stops them worrying
about something they have no control over, over time the stories begin to be believed,
then it becomes a FACT.
I can hear the comments now, 'I am not afraid to die because I am going to be with the lord,'
or whatever your religion calls it's God, and they know it's true, because it's a FACT.

 

[jewscout]

Of coarse I 'rant against religion in general' it is all hogwash, think about what
they are telling you, just stop and think for 5 minutes, everyone is afraid of what will
happen when they die, it has been like that since humans became human, so they make
up nice stories to tell children, and to make themselves feel better, it stops them worrying
about something they have no control over, over time the stories begin to be believed,
then it becomes a FACT.
I can hear the comments now, 'I am not afraid to die because I am going to be with the lord,'
or whatever your religion calls it's God, and they know it's true, because it's a FACT.

what of religions who don't place emphasis on the afterlife?
i do not believe that my reason for being here is to earn tokens to cash in when i die.
I am here to make THIS world a little better.

 

[lilithu]

Of coarse I 'rant against religion in general' it is all hogwash, think about what they are telling you, just stop and think for 5 minutes, everyone is afraid of what will happen when they die, it has been like that since humans became human, so they make up nice stories to tell children, and to make themselves feel better, it stops them worrying
about something they have no control over, over time the stories begin to be believed, then it becomes a FACT. I can hear the comments now, 'I am not afraid to die because I am going to be with the lord,' or whatever your religion calls it's God, and they know it's true, because it's a FACT.

I just noticed that your original post was almost a year and a half ago. How sad that you haven't learned anything in the interim. I'd suggest that you go *listen* to some Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Pagans, Jews, Process Christians... but it seems like you already know it all so there is no room in your head for new perspectives.

I do not believe that I am "going to be with" God when I die; I already am with God. As for what happens after death, if anything, as Unitarian Henry David Thoreau said on his deathbed, "One world at a time." This one is worthy of and in need of our full attention.

And even those people who look forward to and afterlife in heaven etc, while I don't agree, I still respect them far more than someone who comes in presuming that people haven't thought for longer than 5 minutes just because they think differently him. Do you really think that you're the first evangelical atheist to come along, having "seen the light," spouting your version of the truth to others? Please.

 

[shytot]

So I should 'listen' to some 'Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Pagans, Jews, Process Christians... '
why, they will only spout more of the same, all coming from different angles, all representing
different countries, cultures, languages and ideas, but all basically saying the same, there is an all powerful
being watching over us, (or in your case living with you now), he gives you solace and a feeling of
well being, he is your rock, he guides you in everything you do, and it is completely impossible that
he resides only in your head, that you have somehow imagined it all because you need to have
some guiding light with you at all times, to give you strength, it seems to me that you are incapable
of managing your life on your own, a little fear perhaps, you must have a need.
If I said I had someone I talked to when I needed help or guidance, and that he was with me
all the time, and generally took care of me,
I could be accused of being schizophrenic, talking to myself, but I need only tell the doctor
I am talking to my God, and he would completely understand, because he more than likely has a
God he talks to as well, and after all, you all can't be wrong, everyone you know is God fearing,
so why should you be different, and like I said, live with it long enough and it becomes a FACT.
Don't you find that even slightly disturbing?

 

[Master Vigil]

So I should 'listen' to some 'Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Pagans, Jews, Process Christians... '
why, they will only spout more of the same, all coming from different angles, all representing
different countries, cultures, languages and ideas, but all basically saying the same, there is an all powerful
being watching over us, (or in your case living with you now), he gives you solace and a feeling of
well being, he is your rock, he guides you in everything you do, and it is completely impossible that
he resides only in your head, that you have somehow imagined it all because you need to have
some guiding light with you at all times, to give you strength, it seems to me that you are incapable
of managing your life on your own, a little fear perhaps, you must have a need.

See that is what she means. Taoism says absolutely NONE of this. And neither does Buddhism. Do some research.

 

[may]

Excellent topic. I have to say this is something that gets at me, and I hate it how so many people disregard it. I am completely against baptism at an early age. I think, for some people, it makes them more biased towards their religion than any others. I once knew this girl, who claims she was a hardcore Christian, but didn't even know Jews don't believe Jesus was the Son of God. Maybe it's because she's just too ignorant or stupid, but I think it's an interplay of factors during their growth.

It's just pushing religion down a person's throat. Now, if you wait until he or she is about fourteen or fifteen, and discuss which belief they choose for themselves, then they will have a broader knowledge and go with what they learned in the textbook instead of what they learned in a holy scripture.

If a KKK member taught about his or her beliefs to its child from birth, I think it's very unlikely the person will grow up becoming a civil rights activist. The same concept applies here.

i agree with not baptizing babies , because the bible doesnt teach this , we have to take in knowledge first to make an informed choice.
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. ...John 17;3

 

[Cerrax]

See that is what she means. Taoism says absolutely NONE of this. And neither does Buddhism. Do some research.

Neither is Madriism or Deism. I don't fear Gaia or Feith, they are my spiritual parents. Our relationship is not one of fear, but love. And I don't get help from them. Gaia gave me eveything I need to get along in this world when I was born. And Feith challenges me to use them.

But I still have to do it. I can't pray to Gaia and say "Gimmie just a little bit more..." and I can't pray to Feith and say "Let this one slide okay?..." (mainly because prayer isn't part of Madriism but I digress). Ultimately it is my actions that determine my outcome. The fact that I must follow the rules of my religion is what keeps me on a morally sound path.

I admire atheists for being very morally sound individuals without the fear of God. I hear so man little kids saying "Mommy say if I steal, I'll go to hell!" No son. You'll go to jail. I was atheist for most of my life, and though my religion does help me distinguish right from wrong, I know what is right and wrong, even without religion. I am not controlled by my gods, I am simply guided. Its like Morpheus says in The Matrix "I can only show you the door, you must walk through it"

 

[lilithu]

So I should 'listen' to some 'Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Pagans, Jews, Process Christians... ' why, they will only spout more of the same, all coming from different angles, all representing different countries, cultures, languages and ideas, but all basically saying the same, there is an all powerful being watching over us,

As I said, brain too full of something so that you can't take in any new perspectives. Please stop repeating this; it is painful to witness you embarrassing yourself.

(or in your case living with you now), he gives you solace and a feeling of well being, he is your rock, he guides you in everything you do, and it is completely impossible that he resides only in your head, that you have somehow imagined it all because you need to have some guiding light with you at all times, to give you strength, it seems to me that you are incapable of managing your life on your own, a little fear perhaps, you must have a need.

From "The Over-Soul" by Unitarian Ralph Waldo Emerson:

"The Supreme Critic on the errors of the past and the present, and the only prophet of that which must be, is that great nature in which we rest, as the earth lies in the soft arms of the atmosphere; that Unity, that Over-soul, within which every man's particular being is contained and made one with all other; that common heart, of which all sincere conversation is the worship, to which all right action is submission; that overpowering reality which confutes our tricks and talents, and constrains every one to pass for what he is, and to speak from his character, and not from his tongue, and which evermore tends to pass into our thought and hand, and become wisdom, and virtue, and power, and beauty."

You know nothing of my God or my fears and needs. But you betray your own fears and insecurities by coming in here with the need to lift yourself up by putting others down.

"I only ask that you think, please think." :sarcastic

***NOTE TO ANY MODS WATCHING***
I believe this thread should be in the debate forum and not the discussion/comparative religion forum.

 

[shytot]

I am sorry if I 'lumped' them all together, but my meaning was,
they all talk about what happens somewhere else, and how it will be one day,
and the 'after life', and give rules on how you should live this life.
And why should I do some research? it is all meaningless to me anyway,
it is a bit like saying, 'don't knock stupidity until you have tried it,'
the whole concept of religion gives me the creeps,
(So why am I bothering with this forum? fascination, pure fascination.)
it takes me to a time when people sat around a fire at night, and wondered what
ghosts and creatures were out there in the darkness, and I have little doubt there
were a few people who could see the fear in the others, and could use that to their
own advantage, that could be when the 'talking to God' came about, and the more
power it gave them over the others, the more rules they came up with.
Lilithu is right in one thing though 'I know nothing of her God or her fears and needs.'
but she will insist on quoting other peoples words and writings, she is obviously under some kind of spell, she defends herself by attacking, I don't suppose much of herself is left now though, her thoughts will belong to someone else,
as for my fears, I have none, I am going into the next world completely on my own,
by myself, unloved by any divinity, sure in the knowledge that I will have absolutely no trouble getting there, I will know the way without any help from anything or anyone, no guides, no one holding my hand,
Lilithu, ask yourself, could you do that???

 

[michel]

I wouldn't presume to answer for Lilithu. But I would make the point that I was not 'captured' or 'enslaved' by any Religion.I sat down and formulated what I believe in mostly through meditation. I'll grant you the fact that I have read some books, but my belief in a deity is just that - My belief (not someone else's). As for taliking to myself, I do a lot of that already, even if you forget religion.

 

[jewscout]

I wouldn't presume to answer for Lilithu. But I would make the point that I was not 'captured' or 'enslaved' by any Religion.I sat down and formulated what I believe in mostly through meditation. I'll grant you the fact that I have read some books, but my belief in a deity is just that - My belief (not someone else's). As for taliking to myself, I do a lot of that already, even if you forget religion.

nor was i 'captured' or 'enslaved'
much like michel i came to my own beliefs through study and research and looking at my own personal world views.
i also don't consider research, even into a subject matter you don't like and abhor, to be a waste of time. to not do the research is a waste of time.

those who choose not to educate themselves choose to live in ignorance.

 

[d.]

I am sorry if I 'lumped' them all together, but my meaning was,
they all talk about what happens somewhere else, and how it will be one day,
and the 'after life', and give rules on how you should live this life.

again, no. do some research.

And why should I do some research?

if nothing else, it could sharpen your arguments, and make them harder to dismiss. at the moment it's pretty easy.

you might have a point if you do.