Adam and Jesus

[Fool]

Whom do you say was Jesus in Abraham's day?
It is true that Melchizedek is compared favourably with Jesus in the NT and is even called King of Salem in the OT. Salem means "peace" and Jesus is the Prince of Peace (Isa 9:6) and Salem is said to have been Jerusalem. Do you say he was Jesus?
Personally I think one of the 3 angels that Abraham saw when they were on their way to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah was YHWH and so would have been the pre human Jesus.

before abraham i am is present tense. not future. nor past tense. in other words it was during that timeline.


so the high priest at that time was melchizedic.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

was jesus' spirit that of the original adam before the fall?


prior to the fall all was paradise, did christ exist before the fall and was jesus the return of that christ consciousness?

Jesus is spiritual return of Adam, in our view.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

before abraham i am is present tense. not future. nor past tense. in other words it was during that timeline.


so the high priest at that time was melchizedic.

I think grammatically, to say Before someone I am, is not correct according to common language today. Before someone I WAS, is grammatically correct.


But this is like the Sun. In the Sun yesterday, today and tomorrow is the same, because past, Present and future are all reletive to Day and Night changes. In the Sun, Day and night do not change, so, past, present and future is the same.

Christ is like the Sun, as He said, I am light of the world.
So, the Sun cannot say, yesterday because there is no yesterday for the Sun. It is always today.


But what is interesting, is Jesus said, I am in Heaven, even He was on earth.
This tells me, the Language God's messengers and prophet used is not always to be taken literally.

 

[Brian2]

before abraham i am is present tense. not future. nor past tense. in other words it was during that timeline.


so the high priest at that time was melchizedic.

It is a strange sentence "Before Abraham was, I am."
It has been seen as Jesus calling Himself the "I am", the name of God. This is no doubt why the Jews wanted to stone Him for saying that.
But whichever way you read it, it says, "before Abraham was", it does not say "When Abraham was". So I don't think you can use that verse for your purposes.

When it comes to Melchizedek, he is a type of Jesus and is never said to have been Jesus in the NT or OT.
As I said, Jesus still was there and appeared to Abraham. He was one of the 3 angels (messengers from God) who appeared to Abraham when they were on their way to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
3 angels came but only 2 left to go to Sodom. One remained behind and it was God and Abraham and He spoke together.
YHWH sent His Son as one of the Messengers and this Son is the pre human Jesus. This identification of an angel/messenger with God happens in quite a number of places in the OT because the Son is God and can be sent by God, the Father.

 

[Fool]

It is a strange sentence "Before Abraham was, I am."
It has been seen as Jesus calling Himself the "I am", the name of God. This is no doubt why the Jews wanted to stone Him for saying that.
But whichever way you read it, it says, "before Abraham was", it does not say "When Abraham was". So I don't think you can use that verse for your purposes.

When it comes to Melchizedek, he is a type of Jesus and is never said to have been Jesus in the NT or OT.
As I said, Jesus still was there and appeared to Abraham. He was one of the 3 angels (messengers from God) who appeared to Abraham when they were on their way to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
3 angels came but only 2 left to go to Sodom. One remained behind and it was God and Abraham and He spoke together.
YHWH sent His Son as one of the Messengers and this Son is the pre human Jesus. This identification of an angel/messenger with God happens in quite a number of places in the OT because the Son is God and can be sent by God, the Father.

I am is also the name of the 144,000 in revelation and having the seal in the forehead and their Father's name, it is the name that no one is to take in vain; including jesus.

this is the name that all are baptized into.

 

[Brian2]

I am is also the name of the 144,000 in revelation and having the seal in the forehead and their Father's name, it is the name that no one is to take in vain; including jesus.

this is the name that all are baptized into.

Where does it say that the 144000 have the name of God?
Being baptised into a name does not mean that we are are the one we are baptised into.

 

[Fool]

Where does it say that the 144000 have the name of God?

revelation 14:1

Being baptised into a name does not mean that we are are the one we are baptised into.

so you're still trying to define god? god can't be omnipresent? you, you get to decide where your most powerful deity exists and doesn't?? see how your ego works in the face of a word that literally means all present?

its you that has it backwards. god isn't lost anywhere because god is everywhere


to be baptized in the name is to find the kingdom of god within you as jesus told you where it would be. it is within you and yet you blatantly go against your own scripture

luke 17:21

 

[Brian2]

revelation 14:1

That would mean that they belong to Son and the Father imo.
They have been redeemed from the earth (Rev 14:3) and all Christians have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, which means they have been bought by the blood and so we are not our own but belong to the one who bought us. (Acts 17:11, Ephesians 1:7)

so you're still trying to define god? god can't be omnipresent? you, you get to decide where your most powerful deity exists and doesn't?? see how your ego works in the face of a word that literally means all present?

its you that has it backwards. god isn't lost anywhere because god is everywhere

to be baptized in the name is to find the kingdom of god within you as jesus told you where it would be. it is within you and yet you blatantly go against your own scripture

luke 17:21

You are right, God is omnipresent but that presence is actively present at times and in certain places and for His purposes. So God appeared to Moses in a bush, but of course was also everywhere else. Jesus rose to fill the whole universe (Ephesians 4:10) but appeared to Paul and spoke to him at a certain place and time even though He was everywhere at the same time.
But none of this means that we are God, just because God is in us for a special purpose, to make us His children and a new creation and to change us.

Luke 17:21 means that the Kingdom of God is amongst us. Christians are a nation in the midst of the nations of the world. We are the Kingdom amongst the nations.
1Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.…

 

[Fool]

That would mean that they belong to Son and the Father imo.

sons of gods. jesus is just one of infinite number. son means begotten. all are begotten of god based on genesis 1 and john 1.

son is the whole of what is formed, or created. it isn't a single individual because god isn't a person.

i keep telling you the definition and understanding of words and you keep promoting what you believe; especially what you believe the words should say.. seriously you don't see the problem? you're manipulating words to hold onto something that doesn't work within the language you're using. their is a disconnect between your beliefs and language

being lost and redeemed doesn't mean god was otherwise. it means that they are ONE and always had been having understood the name.

They have been redeemed from the earth (Rev 14:3) and all Christians have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, which means they have been bought by the blood and so we are not our own but belong to the one who bought us. (Acts 17:11, Ephesians 1:7)

colossians 3:11 you failed again

You are right, God is omnipresent but that presence is actively present at times and in certain places and for His purposes.

this is self-serving again to hold on to belief. it doesn't face the test.. omnipresent covers all space/time. again twisting the english definition of word to mean something it doesn't. again it is the believer making stuff up to elevate it's ego and define god a place and time; otherwise. omnipresent isn't exclusive to either space or time. its both. there is no definition of omnipresent meaning involving the word exclusive to either the idea of space or time.

So God appeared to Moses in a bush, but of course was also everywhere else. Jesus rose to fill the whole universe (Ephesians 4:10) but appeared to Paul and spoke to him at a certain place and time even though He was everywhere at the same time.
But none of this means that we are God, just because God is in us for a special purpose, to make us His children and a new creation and to change us.

Luke 17:21 means that the Kingdom of God is amongst us. Christians are a nation in the midst of the nations of the world. We are the Kingdom amongst the nations.
1Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.…

midst is everywhere because god can't be amongst 20 people and be separate from all and the kingdom of god realized. it pervades. it doesn't work around it.

seriously more of your beliefs portraying something as exclusive to self. your pride is showing. you defining god a place. your god can't even be all powerful because you get to put him in his place.

 

[Wildswanderer]

was jesus' spirit that of the original adam before the fall?


prior to the fall all was paradise, did christ exist before the fall and was jesus the return of that christ consciousness?

Christ always existed. Adam's spirit was his own.

 

[Fool]

Christ always existed. Adam's spirit was his own.

colossians 3:11


adam's spirit was god's who gave it to him.

a personality and spirit aren't the same thing. a person has a spirit; which they mask with a personality. the spirit speaks through the mask, personality.

literally that is where the word personality came from the root word, person. which is a false face, or you know as the false prophet(ego). the delusion that the person is eternal. also the false disciple - self-righteousness

person (n.)


c. 1200, persoun, "an individual, a human being," from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay, covering the whole head, worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." De Vaan has no entry for it.

 

[Wildswanderer]

colossians 3:11


adam's spirit was god's who gave it to him.

a personality and spirit aren't the same thing. a person has a spirit; which they mask with a personality. the spirit speaks through the mask, personality.

literally that is where the word personality came from the root word, person. which is a false face, or you know as the false prophet(ego). the delusion that the person is eternal. also the false disciple - self-righteousness

person (n.)


c. 1200, persoun, "an individual, a human being," from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay, covering the whole head, worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." De Vaan has no entry for it.

The verse is talking about believers. Not everyone. Everyone who is a believer has Christ's spirit, that's not saying they were born with it.

 

[Fool]

The verse is talking about believers. Not everyone. Everyone who is a believer has Christ's spirit, that's not saying they were born with it.

the book isn't written solely for believers; otherwise they'd be no one who knows. jesus wasn't a believer. colossians 3:11 agrees with john 1:3

 

[Wildswanderer]

jesus wasn't a believer

I'm pretty sure Jesus does in fact, believe in himself!

 

[Wildswanderer]

the book isn't written solely for believers; otherwise they'd be no one who knows. jesus wasn't a believer. colossians 3:11 agrees with john 1:3

That verse doesn't say everyone has God's spirit.

 

[Fool]

I'm pretty sure Jesus does in fact, believe in himself!

thats laughable. i would prefer to know that I know myself and don't just believe.

to believe goes without knowledge. to believe doesn't require someone to test the belief. like sleeping on a thought, a belief, some people never wake up from their stupid dreams

 

[Wildswanderer]

thats laughable. i would prefer to know that I know myself and don't just believe.

to believe goes without knowledge. to believe doesn't require someone to test the belief. like sleeping on a thought, a belief, some people never wake up from their stupid dreams

I have no idea what that means.

 

[Fool]

That verse doesn't say everyone has God's spirit.

really?

then you reject your own scripture?


eccleasiates 12:7

the dead don't know anything. let the dead bury the dead in their belief

but some will wake to everlasting life and other's to everlasting shame.

 

[Fool]

I have no idea what that means.

jesus was a knower. one who knows. jesus didn't ride in on a cloud of dreams, belief.


you're confusing the idea of a believer with the idea of follower. a follower knows where he came from and where he is going. a believer knows neither.

 

[Wildswanderer]

really?

then you reject your own scripture?


eccleasiates 12:7

the dead don't know anything. let the dead bury the dead in their belief

but some will wake to everlasting life and other's to everlasting shame.

Yes because some have God ( the Holy Spirit) and some don't. Thanks for making my point.