Action through inaction

[cfer]

This was stated in a previous thread here:

...action through inaction doesn't mean sitting on your butt with your fingers in your ears and waiting for something to go away....

Could someone please clarify and/or discuss the idea of action through inaction, then? I understand it's not just sitting around waiting for something to go away, happen, etc. But I also don't understand what it really means.

Thank you.

 

[ChrisP]

This was stated in a previous thread here:



Could someone please clarify and/or discuss the idea of action through inaction, then? I understand it's not just sitting around waiting for something to go away, happen, etc. But I also don't understand what it really means.

Thank you.

M_Vigil is better at explaining things than me, but he doesn't seem to be around much at the mo' so. . .

Action through inaction is going with the natural flow of the situation, making any action taken effortless.

Examples. . . examples. . . :sarcastic I've always been horrible with this so I'm gonna cheat and say :

Search Wikipedia for Wu Wei.

 

[Jaymes]

One of the best explanations for it I've read (I think lilithu or MV said it? I can't keep up with where I've read everything anymore ) for action through inaction compared it to going through a river: It muddies the water if you try to run ahead, but it does the same if you stand still. It's about going at the same pace as the river and having the foresight to deal with problems before they become big... like stepping to the side as soon as you see a rock instead of waiting until you get right up to a rock and going "HOLY CRAP, A ROCK!"

 

[cfer]

...It muddies the water if you try to run ahead, but it does the same if you stand still. It's about going at the same pace as the river and having the foresight to deal with problems before they become big... like stepping to the side as soon as you see a rock instead of waiting until you get right up to a rock and going "HOLY CRAP, A ROCK!"

Okay. That makes a lot more sense. I read that before, too, but wasn't quite sure what it meant. Sometimes I need a little extra 'splanation!

So it's more about rolling with the punches, so to speak? Or is that a little too general?

 

[Jaymes]

Sorta kinda, in a way. From my understanding of it--which I'm sure is very imperfect, as I've not been studying Taoism for a very long time--it's about that, and doing what needs to be done as it needs to be done.

I just got a nice Taoism book yesterday at the book store, I'll read through it some and see if I can find anything more specific about wu wei.

 

[Nehustan]

I had a couple of immediate thoughts when I saw the title of this thread...

Firstly 'if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem' can be considered in regard to this, and as for 'going with the flow', I guess that it can be considered as a path of least resistance etc.

Secondly if one strikes the analogy of society as a cogged engine, then if one refuses to move in time with the machine, the machine stops. Then if one proceeds again as one prefers, and the other cogs concur, your inaction will have become a far greater action. To quote another cliche 'thought (and I guess the place of thought defeat - sartori if you will) should preceed action, not replace it'.

 

[ChrisP]

I had a couple of immediate thoughts when I saw the title of this thread...

Firstly 'if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem' can be considered in regard to this, and as for 'going with the flow', I guess that it can be considered as a path of least resistance etc.

Secondly if one strikes the analogy of society as a cogged engine, then if one refuses to move in time with the machine, the machine stops. Then if one proceeds again as one prefers, and the other cogs concur, your inaction will have become a far greater action. To quote another cliche 'thought (and I guess the place of thought defeat - sartori if you will) should preceed action, not replace it'.

I agree with what you're saying but not with regard to the Tao. The tao is no system as you seem to imply (please correct me if I'm assuming). It's a case of what is a natural course of action with events at that time and place. I guess it all comes down to recognising what is happening around you and working with the context.

 

[Nehustan]

I wasn't actually referring to the Tao, more the general laissez faire attitude of some people which the thread invoked in me. Going with the flow, means going with it even when the flow flows (apparently) against you, tho' I have often found such periods in my life the most educational. Many who would tell you to 'take life as it comes' would struggle to escape if real adversity struck. Sometimes thus inaction while free is in fact a great action against slaves, thus 'action through inaction'.

 

[Master Vigil]

Let's see how simple I can make this.

Wu Wei is easiest understood by taking it into the context of necessity. If you are trying to push a cart of groceries down the isle of the store, would it be easier to push it sideways? Or straight? Which way will the wheels allow it to roll? Wu Wei is pushing that cart so it rolls easily. And not using so much energy trying to push it sideways. Does that make sense?

In a way, wu wei (effortless action) is the best method of getting more done.

 

[ChrisP]

Let's see how simple I can make this.

Wu Wei is easiest understood by taking it into the context of necessity. If you are trying to push a cart of groceries down the isle of the store, would it be easier to push it sideways? Or straight? Which way will the wheels allow it to roll? Wu Wei is pushing that cart so it rolls easily. And not using so much energy trying to push it sideways. Does that make sense?

In a way, wu wei (effortless action) is the best method of getting more done.

I like how simple you made it :banghead3

But PLEASE. . . PLEASE. . . Don't bring up supermarkets! I worked in them for too long :149:

 

[Adam Hockworth]

One definition of wu wei that I always liked was that of "effortless flow".....





Peace!

chokmah

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

In a way, wu wei (effortless action) is the best method of getting more done.

Is Wu Wei simply more effective action? i.e. becoming more skilled at singing in a band, cooking nutritional food, killing your enemies, etc. or is there more to it than that? For instance, does it have any ethical dimension?

 

[Adam Hockworth]

Ethically speaking, wu wei would encompass the natural progression of a course of action or inaction: "To every action, there is an equal and opposite 're-action'

As we say in AA, "Be careful what you pray for".

 

[Jaymes]

MV may need to correct me on this, but I believe wu wei is a way of acting with the Tao in mind. Anything that goes against the Tao wouldn't be wu wei.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Not sure what you're trying to say there Adam. Could you explain further?

Jensa that would imply that Wu Wei was different to simple efficiency, and should in some way be distinguished from it.

 

[ChrisP]

MV may need to correct me on this, but I believe wu wei is a way of acting with the Tao in mind. Anything that goes against the Tao wouldn't be wu wei.

I agree, Wu Wei is acting WITH the Natural way(flow if you like) of things.

 

[Adam Hockworth]

Not sure what you're trying saying there Adam.

Simply put, we really don't 'try' to do anything. If hungry eat, if tired sleep, etc. Once we start to attempt to control things, to manipulate our reality, we then are drawn into conflict. Perfectionism is a vice that many 'religions' load onto the backs of their adherents. Wu wei would negate any attempts at perfectionism, since all effort is perfect if done in the spirit of wu wei.

Does that make sense?

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Simply put, we really don't 'try' to do anything. If hungry eat, if tired sleep, etc. Once we start to attempt to control things, to manipulate our reality, we then are drawn into conflict. Perfectionism is a vice that many 'religions' load onto the backs of their adherents. Wu wei would negate any attempts at perfectionism, since all effort is perfect if done in the spirit of wu wei.

Does that make sense?

I think so, but in an intuitive sense rather than a logical one. Here is what I interpreted: -

There is a kind of momentum to things, some way that they should unfold naturally, but trying to change momentum to fit some particular idea of perfection brings unnecessary conflict and has no worth, in fact, leads away from actual perfection.

 

[cfer]

There is a kind of momentum to things, some way that they should unfold naturally, but trying to change momentum to fit some particular idea of perfection brings unnecessary conflict and has no worth, in fact, leads away from actual perfection.

Okay, but how does that work, then? If you're in a situation where you need to do something for you, it might not be the best solution to the whole problem. Does this make sense? I don't really have any good examples off-hand.

Maybe I'm better off asking it this way...Does wu wei differentiate between good for the individual and good for the majority? The two are often not the same.

 

[Adam Hockworth]

I think so, but in an intuitive sense rather than a logical one. Here is what I interpreted: -

There is a kind of momentum to things, some way that they should unfold naturally, but trying to change momentum to fit some particular idea of perfection brings unnecessary conflict and has no worth, in fact, leads away from actual perfection.

I like this, I really do.. thanks for articulating my train of thinking. Women are much better communicators than us men!