about god non exist

[Epic Beard Man]

Actually, I believe that atheists would immediately accept God, once they saw the evidence. Their minds are not cluttered with religious baggage, and so acceptance is straightforward.
Unfortunately, the things you mention are not evidence.

The Qur'an has an answer for this:

Surah Al-An'am 6:111


"Even if We sent down angels to them, and the dead spoke to them, and We gathered together everything in front of them right before their eyes, they would still not have iman unless Allah willed. The truth is that most of them are ignorant."

Similarly

"And even if We had sent down to you, [O Muhammad], a written scripture on a page and they touched it with their hands, the disbelievers would say, "This is not but obvious magic."

"And they say, "Why was there not sent down to him an angel?" But if We had sent down an angel, the matter would have been decided; then they would not be reprieved."

In other words people would disbelieve regardless if they saw metaphysical beings.

 

[Fool]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

man isn't the image of god? love isn't the Spirit of god? god isn't realized?

I'm such an idiot, you know you never know, you never know?

No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

you never know until you try. you never know. you never know.

take a chance to be that form of being.........................you never know until you know love. the awe of love is the genesis of understanding.

stupid is as stupid does

He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'"

you never know

"He trusts in the LORD," they say, "let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."

 

[Grandliseur]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

The problem is the limit of our reality sphere. It is so limited. We live but unaware of most things going on around us, and once you speak of ancient matters, it becomes a matter of believing the people who speak on this. Though Jesus cured and even caused more than one to be resurrected, his temporaries killed him for fear of loosing their power over things; rather, than fearing the fact that only God could have made these miracles happen.

We were not, are not, rational beings.

 

[blü 2]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

Jesus insisted again and again that he wasn't God ─

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
​

Jesus doesn't become a god until the Trinity's invented in the 4th century CE. One of its problems is that, as you can see, Jesus expressly denies its central tenet. Another problem is that the doctrine of the Trinity is incoherent, which is why it's called a 'mystery' (euphemism for 'a nonsense').

 

[QuestioningMind]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

Just because something is written in an old book does make it true. The Greek gods are well documented in many books. Do you think that constitutes proof that the Greek gods are real?

 

[Altfish]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

No, atheists don't say god isn't observable. We say there is no evidence of his existence. That is different.

Regarding Jesus. Jesus may have existed (the jury is out) but there is no evidence that he was the son of god.
People claiming to be the son of god are common, the likes of David Koresh and David Shayler come to mind. Why was Jesus any different?

 

[viole]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

These are nice stories, you know?

If we believe everything we read or hear, then Excalibur was evidence that the Lady of the Lake existed.

Ciao

- viole

 

[syo]

Probably assuming Jesus existed and that the Resurrection happened. That level of literalism would have you conclude that a person reborn in Christ cannot die.

isn't that about the second coming, that we won't die?

 

[syo]

Just because something is written in an old book does make it true. The Greek gods are well documented in many books. Do you think that constitutes proof that the Greek gods are real?

maybe what is written in the bible is testimony.

 

[blü 2]

Just because something is written in an old book does make it true. The Greek gods are well documented in many books. Do you think that constitutes proof that the Greek gods are real?

I can think of reasonable arguments in support of Aphrodite and Ares.

 

[Grandliseur]

Jesus insisted again and again that he wasn't God ─

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
​

Jesus doesn't become a god until the Trinity's invented in the 4th century CE. One of its problems is that, as you can see, Jesus expressly denies its central tenet. Another problem is that the doctrine of the Trinity is incoherent, which is why it's called a 'mystery' (euphemism for 'a nonsense').

For an unbeliever you are uncommonly well informed. And, I agree with your scriptures and assessment here, fully; however, between being an unbeliever and believing that Christ is God, I think unbelief is the greater problem. Personally, I am neither a Trinitarian, nor a JW.

 

[blü 2]

For an unbeliever you are uncommonly well informed.

All part of enquiring into what's true in reality.

between being an unbeliever and believing that Christ is God, I think unbelief is the greater problem.

To me that's the difference between reading the story and being inside the story.

Still, it's agreeable that we have at least some common ground.

 

[Grandliseur]

All part of enquiring into what's true in reality.

To me that's the difference between reading the story and being inside the story.

Still, it's agreeable that we have at least some common ground.

I don't remember if it was your work of scriptures assembled that claimed a flat earth. If it was you, I thought it too bad you didn't look at it from another perspective. If it wasn't sorry for the confusion.
Anyway, I have little common ground with many of those who claim to believe, but you surprised me with this post. Well done.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable.

More specifically it's to do with the lack of evidence or conclusive argument.

but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence?

Um... No. Lots of people throughout history have claimed to be, or be descended from, God or Gods.

jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed?

Hundreds of years of people writing about you can produce a lot of exaggerations and falsehoods.

and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

Nope.

 

[David T]

If jesus performed miracles and if he is god, there should be a line of miracles today outside of the human experience. We should be able to say "oh, that's a miracle" and still believe in Siva, The Dharma, Muhammad, or so have you.

That, and personally, evidence is not external it's internal. In person, many atheists do not care.

Jesus existence isn't proof that god exist any more than Muhammad's existence and Moses. It's an individual experience and by asking and saying god exist because of X; god does not because of Y is just silly.

If you want to explain god's existence, share your experience. We can't go back 2,000 years; so, like any other event, it's written, it's said, but we take things for granted of it's actual existence.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there, the majority would think maybe the sound existed because they assume if it happens here it can happen there. Logically, because we are not there, we cannot say one hundred percent. It's up to the person to go off the majority though the majority doesn't prove validity; it's an assumption based on faith/trust our knowledge applies to other things we can't cross reference beyond one's testimony.

It's if you have A B C D, we automatically put E because that is what we are taught. The letters doesn't mean anything without us. They are just markings on paper and screen. Dots and 0s and 1s. We make sense of these letters for communication.

Same as scripture. It's not historical and we can't go back 2,000 years but we automatically associate the past with the present because we are taught or influenced (those in god-countries) that because of X it must be associate with Y. If there is a computer it didn't pop from thin air; it must have a creator.

It's an assumption. Jesus most likely existed just as Muhammad and Bahaullah. As for proof of miracles and god, just like today, how does "2000" makes miracles exist then but not today.

Well said Carlita. As far as I can tell we have a serious reverse engineering problem!!!! We take the living dissect it, arrive at abstracted understanding then attempt to reconstruct that understanding into a living being!! Pinocchio it's always always Pinocchio no matter what. Ironically I am extremely good at exactly this skill set reverse engineering. Probably better than 99% of the population. John Muir was an expert himself.

Symbiosis is not accounted for in reverse engineering. So I write a symbiotic statement

," to understand God one must understand nature, to understand nature one must understand God. To split it, is to negate it. If you negate it, you do not understand it"

While that statement is not unassailable by the busy mind because all kinds of fantasy can be generated I would say it's fairly clearas clear as lots of these kinds of sentence structures.

 

[Jumi]

"And even if We had sent down to you, [O Muhammad], a written scripture on a page and they touched it with their hands, the disbelievers would say, "This is not but obvious magic."

"And they say, "Why was there not sent down to him an angel?" But if We had sent down an angel, the matter would have been decided; then they would not be reprieved."

In other words people would disbelieve regardless if they saw metaphysical beings.

That is wrong in my view. Most atheists are open to evidence and proof. I've been there myself so I should know, it's still a recent memory.

 

[Father Heathen]

atheists say they don't believe in god because he isn't observable. but 2000 years ago god was very observable, he came as jesus. jesus was god on earth. isn't that enough of evidence? jesus didn't even have a flaw. and what about the miracles he performed? and his empty grave? isn't jesus the proof of god?

How can people not believe in super heroes when they're clearly right there in the comic books!

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

maybe what is written in the bible is testimony.

Sure it's testimony...

Testimony by people who can't be cross examined, and in many cases, cannot be definitively identified. Most of their assertions cannot be verified from independent sources.

Testimony that was originally transmitted orally for several generations before anyone thought to write it down, and then for centuries were copied and translated and sometimes altered outright by people who were not necessarily very competent in doing so, before we get to the earliest written copies that we have today.

We know that they varied in their competence and altered the texts for religious, political and social reasons because we have so many copies from beginning in the 300s (about 300 years AFTER the events described) to the 1500s, when the printing press was used to start making identical copies--and those earlier, handwritten copies in diverse languages, contain far more variations than there are words in the currently accepted New Testament...

So, yes, it's testimony, but in a debate or a court presentation, it's hearsay testimony, far worse than third-hand testimony, maybe 80 generations removed from the eyewitnesses...

 

[idav]

isn't that about the second coming, that we won't die?

There are a lot of verses that talk about not tasting death.
"Will Not Taste Death" | Freely Receive

 

[QuestioningMind]

maybe what is written in the bible is testimony.

Maybe.... and MAYBE the Hindu Vedas are testimony. Just because it's written in a book and CLAIMS to be testimony does not make it so. For some silly reason you've decided that the myths written in the bible are REAL and the myths written down by all other religions are FAKE. And I suspect that the only reason you believe this is because some fallible human being TOLD you the bible is true and all of the others are fake.