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A way to learn the truth about the Baha’i Faith?

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Kitab-i-Aqdas could be the core book as its name suggests but the Bahais here don't confirm that in a straightforward manner.
Who named it "Kitab-i-Aqdas", "The Most Holy Book"? Baha'ullah named it or some other person named it.
I am on the title cover, please.
Regards

The Bahais should have known it or Bahaullah himself should have written it in Aqdas. After all it is their religion.

I have made it clear in some of my posts that I want to compare One book, the core of the core book of Bahaullah with Quran, so I want to find which book of Bahaullah is that one.
It should not be difficult for the Bahais to select ONE compact book of Bahaullah from so many books written by him, they are supposed to have read them all.
Any Bahai or non-Bahai, please
Regards
It is easy, it is the Kitab-i-Iqan by Baha'u'llah. It was suggested to you by Tony - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41 It is the core theological book of Baha'u'llah.

Having said that, the Quran itself is made of an assembly of surahs not all revealed at once, so if one were to assemble the Iqan and the Aqdas it would be 257 +90 = 347 pages, which is less than the 600+ pages of the Quran, so you see in less space Baha'u'llah has offered 2 books which combined would easily be equivalent to the Quran. That being said, the Iqan will suffice for your purposes.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is easy, it is the Kitab-i-Iqan by Baha'u'llah. It was suggested to you by Tony - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41 It is the core theological book of Baha'u'llah.

Having said that, the Quran itself is made of an assembly of surahs not all revealed at once, so if one were to assemble the Iqan and the Aqdas it would be 257 +90 = 347 pages, which is less than the 600+ pages of the Quran, so you see in less space Baha'u'llah has offered 2 books which combined would easily be equivalent to the Quran. That being said, the Iqan will suffice for your purposes.

Now that was a great frame of reference I had not yet considered, thank you :). I was thinking that the Hidden Words offer what was the Essence of the Koran, in fact Baha'u'llah says all the holy books of the past.

Regards Tony
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
It is easy, it is the Kitab-i-Iqan by Baha'u'llah. It was suggested to you by Tony - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41 It is the core theological book of Baha'u'llah.

Having said that, the Quran itself is made of an assembly of surahs not all revealed at once, so if one were to assemble the Iqan and the Aqdas it would be 257 +90 = 347 pages, which is less than the 600+ pages of the Quran, so you see in less space Baha'u'llah has offered 2 books which combined would easily be equivalent to the Quran. That being said, the Iqan will suffice for your purposes.

What is the word count of Aqdas and Iqan, please?
Regards
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What is the word count of Aqdas and Iqan, please?
Regards
I got 50,420 words for the Iqan (English translation) and 19,454 words for the Aqdas(English translation) which adds to a combined total of 69,874 words.

According to the Quran statistics website Words the arabic Quran has 77,797 words in total. If you were to count the words of one of the English translations it would most probably be higher than that.

Kind regards :)
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I got 50,420 words for the Iqan (English translation) and 19,454 words for the Aqdas(English translation) which adds to a combined total of 69,874 words.

According to the Quran statistics website Words the arabic Quran has 77,797 words in total. If you were to count the words of one of the English translations it would most probably be higher than that.

Kind regards :)
Thanks for the information.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I got 50,420 words for the Iqan (English translation) and 19,454 words for the Aqdas(English translation) which adds to a combined total of 69,874 words.

According to the Quran statistics website Words the arabic Quran has 77,797 words in total. If you were to count the words of one of the English translations it would most probably be higher than that.

Kind regards :)
"I got 50,420 words for the Iqan (English translation) and 19,454 words for the Aqdas(English translation) which adds to a combined total of 69,874 words." Unquote.

Please quote one's source/link for that.

Regards
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
"I got 50,420 words for the Iqan (English translation) and 19,454 words for the Aqdas(English translation) which adds to a combined total of 69,874 words." Unquote.

Please quote one's source/link for that.

Regards
I used Microsoft Word, downloaded the documents to word and did a word count using the computer, so as it is original research there is no link. Hence the words “I got”.

Kind regards :)
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I used Microsoft Word, downloaded the documents to word and did a word count using the computer, so as it is original research there is no link. Hence the words “I got”.

Kind regards :)
Thanks for doing this work for me.
I also want to know, is Kitab-i-Iqan also a compilation from Bahaullah's writing in other books or it is written/authored by him in the present form originally and in what language was it written Arabic or Persian, please?

Regards
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Thanks for doing this work for me.
I also want to know, is Kitab-i-Iqan also a compilation from Bahaullah's writing in other books or it is written/authored by him in the present form originally and in what language was it written Arabic or Persian, please?

Regards
The Kitab-i-Iqan is not a compilation. It is an originally authored work. It was composed partly in Persian and partly in Arabic. It was translated into English in 1904, and retranslated into English by Shoghi Effendi in 1931.

Kitáb-i-Íqán

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Kitáb-i-Íqán (Persian: كتاب ايقان‎, Arabic: كتاب الإيقان‎ "The Book of Certitude") is one of many books held sacred by followers of the Bahá'í Faith; it is their primary theological work. One Bahá'í scholar states that it can be regarded as the "most influential Quran commentary in Persian outside the Muslim world," because of its international audience.[1] It is sometimes referred to as the Book of Iqan or simply The Iqan.

Background

The work was composed partly in Persian and partly in Arabic by Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the Bahá'í Faith, in 1861, when he was living as an exile in Baghdad, then in a province of the Ottoman Empire. While Bahá'u'lláh had claimed to have received revelation some ten years earlier in the Síyáh-Chál (lit. black-pit), a dungeon in Tehran, he had not yet openly declared his mission. References to his own station therefore appear only in veiled form. Christopher Buck, author of a major study of the Íqán, has referred to this theme of the book as its "messianic secret," paralleling the same theme in the Gospel of Mark.[2]

The Íqán constitutes the major theological work of Bahá'u'lláh, and hence of the Bahá'í Faith. It is sometimes referred to as the completion of the Persian Bayán. When it was lithographed in Bombay in 1882, it was the first work of Bahá'í scripture to be published.[3] It was first translated into English in 1904, one of the first works of Bahá'u'lláh to appear in English.[4] Shoghi Effendi, who retranslated the work into English in 1931, referred to the work as follows:

A model of Persian prose, of a style at once original, chaste and vigorous, and remarkably lucid, both cogent in argument and matchless in its irresistible eloquence, this Book, setting forth in outline the Grand Redemptive Scheme of God, occupies a position unequalled by any work in the entire range of Bahá'í literature, except the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Bahá'u'lláh's Most Holy Book.[5]

There is more information about the history and contents of The Kitáb-i-Íqán at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitab-i-Iqan
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The Kitab-i-Iqan is not a compilation. It is an originally authored work. It was composed partly in Persian and partly in Arabic. It was translated into English in 1904, and retranslated into English by Shoghi Effendi in 1931.

Kitáb-i-Íqán

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Kitáb-i-Íqán (Persian: كتاب ايقان‎, Arabic: كتاب الإيقان‎ "The Book of Certitude") is one of many books held sacred by followers of the Bahá'í Faith; it is their primary theological work. One Bahá'í scholar states that it can be regarded as the "most influential Quran commentary in Persian outside the Muslim world," because of its international audience.[1] It is sometimes referred to as the Book of Iqan or simply The Iqan.

Background

The work was composed partly in Persian and partly in Arabic by Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the Bahá'í Faith, in 1861, when he was living as an exile in Baghdad, then in a province of the Ottoman Empire. While Bahá'u'lláh had claimed to have received revelation some ten years earlier in the Síyáh-Chál (lit. black-pit), a dungeon in Tehran, he had not yet openly declared his mission. References to his own station therefore appear only in veiled form. Christopher Buck, author of a major study of the Íqán, has referred to this theme of the book as its "messianic secret," paralleling the same theme in the Gospel of Mark.[2]

The Íqán constitutes the major theological work of Bahá'u'lláh, and hence of the Bahá'í Faith. It is sometimes referred to as the completion of the Persian Bayán. When it was lithographed in Bombay in 1882, it was the first work of Bahá'í scripture to be published.[3] It was first translated into English in 1904, one of the first works of Bahá'u'lláh to appear in English.[4] Shoghi Effendi, who retranslated the work into English in 1931, referred to the work as follows:

A model of Persian prose, of a style at once original, chaste and vigorous, and remarkably lucid, both cogent in argument and matchless in its irresistible eloquence, this Book, setting forth in outline the Grand Redemptive Scheme of God, occupies a position unequalled by any work in the entire range of Bahá'í literature, except the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Bahá'u'lláh's Most Holy Book.[5]

There is more information about the history and contents of The Kitáb-i-Íqán at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitab-i-Iqan
"The Kitab-i-Iqan is not a compilation". Unquote.
Thanks.
OK, though there are many aspects not mentioned with clarity in the above post, yet I intend to read it.
Some Bahaism friends here have contended that all books written by Bahaullah altogether make one book. Since not all books written/authored by Bahaullah have not been translated in English, and the friends here have read only the translated one's so it means that none of them has read the "whole book" written/authored by Bahaullah.
Is it so, please?
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I used Microsoft Word, downloaded the documents to word and did a word count using the computer, so as it is original research there is no link. Hence the words “I got”.

Kind regards :)
Some Bahaism friends here have contended that all books written by Bahaullah altogether make one book.
In that case I want to know the total pages of this "one book" and also the count of words, if possible.

Regards
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
"The Kitab-i-Iqan is not a compilation". Unquote.
Thanks.
OK, though there are many aspects not mentioned with clarity in the above post, yet I intend to read it.
Some Bahaism friends here have contended that all books written by Bahaullah altogether make one book. Since not all books written/authored by Bahaullah have not been translated in English, and the friends here have read only the translated one's so it means that none of them has read the "whole book" written/authored by Bahaullah.
Is it so, please?
Regards
Baha'is not not always see things the same way. I do not consider everything that Baha'u'llah wrote as one book, but rather as many Tablets.

Number of tablets revealed by Bahá'u'lláh
by Robert Stockman and Juan Cole
1999

From Resource Guide, "scripture":

The writings, or tablets, of the Báb, Bahá'u'lláh, 'Abdu'l-Bahá, and Shoghi Effendi are stored at various places at the Bahá'í World Center in Haifa, Israel. Soon they will be moved to a building named "The Center for the Study of the Sacred Texts," which is under construction as of this writing. Microfiche copies of the tablets are also preserved for safekeeping at a variety of places around the world. Many texts were lost, stolen, or destroyed, and many others are still held in private hands. The estimated figures for the total number of individual tablets are as follows: Bahá'u'lláh, 7,160 tablets archived, 15,000 total estimated to have been written; 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 15,549 tablets archived, 30,800 total estimated to have been written; Shoghi Effendi, 16,370 letters archived, 30,100 total estimated to have been written ("Bahá'í Archives: Preserving and Safeguarding the Sacred Texts," in 'Andalíb magazine, 12.48 (Fall 1993): insert). William Collins has described the structure of the International Bahá'í Archives and other considerations relevant to preserving the sacred texts in "Library and Archival Resources at the Bahá'í World Centre," in Bahá'í Studies Bulletin, 3.4 (Dec. 1985).

Notes by Robert Stockman:

Bahá'u'lláh revealed over 15,000 tablets. Some are long (several hundred pages) but most are a page or two, written to a specific individual to answer a question or convey encouragement. Shoghi Effendi translated about a thousand pages into English in His lifetime. Gleanings contains 166 extracts, Prayers and Meditations 184, but some tablets provided more than one extract, so the total number of tablets that the Guardian used was less than the sum of the extracts in the two books (350). Since the Guardian did not assemble a list of his sources, it has been necessary to search for the original tablets he used, and they have not all been identified yet. More recently, the Universal House of Justice has overseen production of Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas and The Kitáb-i-Aqdas: The Most Holy Book, rendering into English 500 more pages of revelation. It appears that less than 500 of the 15,000 tablets — a relatively small percentage of the total revelation — have been partially translated and published in English. Since the works were selected by the Guardian and Universal House of Justice, we can be sure that those available are the most significant and useful texts. Much of the rest probably is encouragement to individuals. We can also be sure that in subsequent centuries our understanding of the revelation of Bahá'u'lláh will undergo significant expansion and deepening as more tablets are translated.

A search for references to all the tablets discussed in English and Persian by Bahá'í writers shows that only about 360 tablets have names. In some cases the names were given by Bahá'u'lláh Himself (like the Hidden Words), `Abdu'l-Bahá, or Shoghi Effendi. In other cases the name is derived from a prominent theme (such as the Tablet to the Christians). Many tablets are named for their recipients (like the Tablet to Queen Victoria) but some individuals (like Salmán) received dozens of tablets and thus naming the tablets for their recipients can be confusing. A few tablets (such as the Lawh-i-Ra'ís [Adrianople period] and the Súriy-i-Ra'ís [early Akká period] are perpetually confused, and even Shoghi Effendi appears to use the two names interchangeably.

Taherzadeh's four-volume Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh provides historical information on and summaries of only about 86 tablets. At least one prominent tablet is absent: the Kitáb-i-`Ahd, presumably because its date of revelation is unknown (and Taherzadeh's survey covers the revelation chronologically).

Number of tablets revealed by Bahá'u'lláh
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Some Bahaism friends here have contended that all books written by Bahaullah altogether make one book.
In that case I want to know the total pages of this "one book" and also the count of words, if possible.

Regards
You will have to ask those who made that assertion.
Kind regards :)
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Baha'is not not always see things the same way. I do not consider everything that Baha'u'llah wrote as one book, but rather as many Tablets.

Number of tablets revealed by Bahá'u'lláh
by Robert Stockman and Juan Cole
1999

From Resource Guide, "scripture":

The writings, or tablets, of the Báb, Bahá'u'lláh, 'Abdu'l-Bahá, and Shoghi Effendi are stored at various places at the Bahá'í World Center in Haifa, Israel. Soon they will be moved to a building named "The Center for the Study of the Sacred Texts," which is under construction as of this writing. Microfiche copies of the tablets are also preserved for safekeeping at a variety of places around the world. Many texts were lost, stolen, or destroyed, and many others are still held in private hands. The estimated figures for the total number of individual tablets are as follows: Bahá'u'lláh, 7,160 tablets archived, 15,000 total estimated to have been written; 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 15,549 tablets archived, 30,800 total estimated to have been written; Shoghi Effendi, 16,370 letters archived, 30,100 total estimated to have been written ("Bahá'í Archives: Preserving and Safeguarding the Sacred Texts," in 'Andalíb magazine, 12.48 (Fall 1993): insert). William Collins has described the structure of the International Bahá'í Archives and other considerations relevant to preserving the sacred texts in "Library and Archival Resources at the Bahá'í World Centre," in Bahá'í Studies Bulletin, 3.4 (Dec. 1985).

Notes by Robert Stockman:

Bahá'u'lláh revealed over 15,000 tablets. Some are long (several hundred pages) but most are a page or two, written to a specific individual to answer a question or convey encouragement. Shoghi Effendi translated about a thousand pages into English in His lifetime. Gleanings contains 166 extracts, Prayers and Meditations 184, but some tablets provided more than one extract, so the total number of tablets that the Guardian used was less than the sum of the extracts in the two books (350). Since the Guardian did not assemble a list of his sources, it has been necessary to search for the original tablets he used, and they have not all been identified yet. More recently, the Universal House of Justice has overseen production of Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas and The Kitáb-i-Aqdas: The Most Holy Book, rendering into English 500 more pages of revelation. It appears that less than 500 of the 15,000 tablets — a relatively small percentage of the total revelation — have been partially translated and published in English. Since the works were selected by the Guardian and Universal House of Justice, we can be sure that those available are the most significant and useful texts. Much of the rest probably is encouragement to individuals. We can also be sure that in subsequent centuries our understanding of the revelation of Bahá'u'lláh will undergo significant expansion and deepening as more tablets are translated.

A search for references to all the tablets discussed in English and Persian by Bahá'í writers shows that only about 360 tablets have names. In some cases the names were given by Bahá'u'lláh Himself (like the Hidden Words), `Abdu'l-Bahá, or Shoghi Effendi. In other cases the name is derived from a prominent theme (such as the Tablet to the Christians). Many tablets are named for their recipients (like the Tablet to Queen Victoria) but some individuals (like Salmán) received dozens of tablets and thus naming the tablets for their recipients can be confusing. A few tablets (such as the Lawh-i-Ra'ís [Adrianople period] and the Súriy-i-Ra'ís [early Akká period] are perpetually confused, and even Shoghi Effendi appears to use the two names interchangeably.

Taherzadeh's four-volume Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh provides historical information on and summaries of only about 86 tablets. At least one prominent tablet is absent: the Kitáb-i-`Ahd, presumably because its date of revelation is unknown (and Taherzadeh's survey covers the revelation chronologically).

Number of tablets revealed by Bahá'u'lláh
Thanks for the information.
I am only interested to know about Bahaullah from the core books he himself wrote/authored for comparison with Quran. My interest is not in Abdul Baha or Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ, for the purposes of my investigation of truth they are presently non-entities.
Similarly, for my present investigation, the anthologies like Aqdas and or Gleanings may have a high value for the followers of Bahaullah, but not for me.
Iqan is OK with me and I intend to read it for my purpose. I want to read another book of Bahaullah also to make the total count of words comparable with Quran. Which other book one will suggest/recommend to me for my purpose, please.
I am not a scholar. I am just an ordinary man in the street with no claim of piety or any scholarship whatsoever.

Regards
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thanks for the information.
I am only interested to know about Bahaullah from the core books he himself wrote/authored for comparison with Quran. My interest is not in Abdul Baha or Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ, for the purposes of my investigation of truth they are presently non-entities.
Similarly, for my present investigation, the anthologies like Aqdas and or Gleanings may have a high value for the followers of Bahaullah, but not for me.
Iqan is OK with me and I intend to read it for my purpose. I want to read another book of Bahaullah also to make the total count of words comparable with Quran. Which other book one will suggest/recommend to me for my purpose, please.
I am not a scholar. I am just an ordinary man in the street with no claim of piety or any scholarship whatsoever.

Regards

Parrsurry, this link was provided when you asked that question before

Baha'i Reference Library: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

On the LHS is the language links and you can view and read these works in either English, Persian or Arabic.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Thanks for the information.
I am only interested to know about Bahaullah from the core books he himself wrote/authored for comparison with Quran. My interest is not in Abdul Baha or Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ, for the purposes of my investigation of truth they are presently non-entities.
Similarly, for my present investigation, the anthologies like Aqdas and or Gleanings may have a high value for the followers of Bahaullah, but not for me.
Iqan is OK with me and I intend to read it for my purpose. I want to read another book of Bahaullah also to make the total count of words comparable with Quran. Which other book one will suggest/recommend to me for my purpose, please.
I am not a scholar. I am just an ordinary man in the street with no claim of piety or any scholarship whatsoever.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
"The Kitab-i-Iqan is not a compilation". Unquote.
Thanks.
OK, though there are many aspects not mentioned with clarity in the above post, yet I intend to read it.
Some Bahaism friends here have contended that all books written by Bahaullah altogether make one book. Since not all books written/authored by Bahaullah have not been translated in English, and the friends here have read only the translated one's so it means that none of them has read the "whole book" written/authored by Bahaullah.
Is it so, please?

I have completed first reading of the book Kitab-i-Iqan, one of the core books of Bahaism people written by Bahaullah, its translation in Arabic. Now I have started reading its translation in English and side by side comparing it with its Arabic translation. Where I find it necessary I also consult the original one in Persian/Farsi . My impression is that Bahaullah often used words of the Arabic language in his Persian original so Arabic translation is more close to the original than the English translation.

Regards
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have completed first reading of the book Kitab-i-Iqan, one of the core books of Bahaism people written by Bahaullah, its translation in Arabic. Now I have started reading its translation in English and side by side comparing it with its Arabic translation. Where I find it necessary I also consult the original one in Persian/Farsi . My impression is that Bahaullah often used words of the Arabic language in his Persian original so Arabic translation is more close to the original than the English translation.

Regards

Thank you for telling us. This was translated by Shoghi Effendi.

Regards Tony
 
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