A Universe from Nothing?

[godnotgod]

why the shallow assumption?

You've been talking about escaping the grave since Day One, as if it's something one needs to escape from.

 

[godnotgod]

not necessarily

'you' did not put 'you' in that carcass 'you' have

'you' think it's 'your' decision to continue in the next life?

Where is the 'you' or 'I' in the carcass or that continues on?

But that is not the problem you present. You assume you follow your dead carcass into the grave. Why? Why wouldn't your living entity leave your body when it becomes lifeless, before entering the grave? After all, a dead carcass is lifeless and would have no 'you' inside it to animate it, right?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Any and all incarnate cosmic entities, who identify with their body as the extent of what and who they really are, will naturally and logically conclude that when the body dies, that this end is absolute.. That is why the wise seek to realize what and who they really are, and in the process naturally and logically transcend the identification with the body in which they are temporarily incarnate.

 

[soma]

Energy is not created and can't be destroyed, it only changes form. Some call this God, which I do sometimes, but I like to think of it as a subtle energy that is omnipresent like an ocean that is unqualified, but has energy with qualities in it. As a Christian I would call it God the Father.

 

[gnostic]

“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

Kalu Rinpoche

Rinpoche is delusional. This is nothing but claptrap sophistry.

But I am not at all that surprise that you would quote something like this...you share the same delusion, and you both have the tendency to use sophistry as argument.

 

[gnostic]

Matter is made of energy......only the forms are created and destroyed...like stars and planets and humans...the underlying universal mass of energy and matter does not change..

To put it simply, in layman's term.

These "forms" you are talking about...

...stars, planets, humans...

...they (those examples you have given) are all matters.

Every matters contained mass and energy.

In physics, there is inherent connection between mass and energy.

Energy required mass, for it existence. Without mass there is no energy.

Mass required energy. Without energy, mass can do no work.

Matter can be transformed or changed.

As can mass and energy.

You stated that mass cannot changed. That's not strictly true.

When you change matter, you will change the mass.

Mass and energy will always undergo changes over period of time, that you don't even notice most of the time.

Take yourself, for instance. Are you same mass when you were born? Are you the same mass as you were when you were 5, 10, 20, 30, etc? How and why do your mass have changed over the years? What effected such changes in mass? Is it age, environment or diet? Can illnesses or disease affect your body's mass.

No mass can change. And the change can effect you, even if your change has no effect on this earth or the universe.

 

[Thief]

To put it simply, in layman's term.

These "forms" you are talking about...

...stars, planets, humans...

...they (those examples you have given) are all matters.

Every matters contained mass and energy.

In physics, there is inherent connection between mass and energy.

Energy required mass, for it existence. Without mass there is no energy.

Mass required energy. Without energy, mass can do no work.

Matter can be transformed or changed.

As can mass and energy.

You stated that mass cannot changed. That's not strictly true.

When you change matter, you will change the mass.

Mass and energy will always undergo changes over period of time, that you don't even notice most of the time.

Take yourself, for instance. Are you same mass when you were born? Are you the same mass as you were when you were 5, 10, 20, 30, etc? How and why do your mass have changed over the years? What effected such changes in mass? Is it age, environment or diet? Can illnesses or disease affect your body's mass.

No mass can change. And the change can effect you, even if your change has no effect on this earth or the universe.

with a few exceptions......ALL of your body cells are replaced within a seven year span
some items much quicker

lumping the human into the list of cosmic forms was incorrect
not all substance carries intelligent life within it

or perhaps you worship the sun as a god?

 

[Thief]

You've been talking about escaping the grave since Day One, as if it's something one needs to escape from.

if you prefer eternal darkness as your future......
do no more than continue as you have

 

[Ben Dhyan]

To put it simply, in layman's term.

These "forms" you are talking about...

...stars, planets, humans...

...they (those examples you have given) are all matters.

Every matters contained mass and energy.

In physics, there is inherent connection between mass and energy.

Energy required mass, for it existence. Without mass there is no energy.

Mass required energy. Without energy, mass can do no work.

Matter can be transformed or changed.

As can mass and energy.

You stated that mass cannot changed. That's not strictly true.

When you change matter, you will change the mass.

Mass and energy will always undergo changes over period of time, that you don't even notice most of the time.

Take yourself, for instance. Are you same mass when you were born? Are you the same mass as you were when you were 5, 10, 20, 30, etc? How and why do your mass have changed over the years? What effected such changes in mass? Is it age, environment or diet? Can illnesses or disease affect your body's mass.

No mass can change. And the change can effect you, even if your change has no effect on this earth or the universe.

That is so weird....where did you learn your physics... We've had this debate starting with this post... #2595 gnostic, Nov 25, 2016 and if you follow the relevant responses and counter responses, you were shown to have not understood the English and in the process made a fool of yourself. What is it this time in that same post you have quoted that you do not understand or disagree with? Remember I insist that you need to quote my precise words so I understand what it is you disagree with. I have no interest in a discussion about irrelevant issues so be sure to address only those words you quote.

 

[godnotgod]

Rinpoche is delusional. This is nothing but claptrap sophistry.

But I am not at all that surprise that you would quote something like this...you share the same delusion, and you both have the tendency to use sophistry as argument.

Types like you demand factual evidence and proof in order to accept certain claims. I respect that when the phenomena being claimed as true falls within the scope of Reason, Logic, and Analysis. All three are applicable. But it has been explained to you and others here many times that the mystical experience is completely outside of these three approaches to factual knowledge, and is not demonstrable via these means. Yet you persist in your recalcitrant designs. Mystical statements must be understood intuitively, without thought. Factual knowledge is about thinking; mystical insights are about seeing. See the difference? I can only tell you that I fully understand what Rinpoche is saying, and I know he is not delusional, nor am I. You only say that because it is outside your structured paradigm which is the conceptual mind, which is always seeking ways to make Reality fit the concept, rather than seeing directly into the true nature of Reality itself. Campeche?

Calling it claptrap sophistry does not make it so. Tell me: What is it about what Rinpoche and I both see and realize to be the case that makes it delusional?

 

[godnotgod]

if you prefer eternal darkness as your future......
do no more than continue as you have

There you go again, Thief, plunging directly into dualism, without realizing it. So I am going to have to let you go. We have strayed too far away from topic.

Do you even understand that you are in the dual world?

 

[godnotgod]

When you change matter, you will change the mass.

Mass and energy will always undergo changes over period of time, that you don't even notice most of the time.

As I understand it, the Constancy Laws of Einstein state that, overall, the total amount of mass and energy in the Universe does not change.

 

[`mud]

And Einstein is also dead and gone.
Now......prove the constancy !

 

[Thief]

There you go again, Thief, plunging directly into dualism, without realizing it. So I am going to have to let you go. We have strayed too far away from topic.

Do you even understand that you are in the dual world?

there is only one....universe....
One Word

 

[godnotgod]

And Einstein is also dead and gone.
Now......prove the constancy !

He left behind some math that did prove it.

 

[godnotgod]

there is only one....universe....
One Word

Do you believe in heaven and hell?

 

[gnostic]

with a few exceptions......ALL of your body cells are replaced within a seven year span
some items much quicker

lumping the human into the list of cosmic forms was incorrect
not all substance carries intelligent life within it

or perhaps you worship the sun as a god?

Hey, I was only using ben_q's examples. He was the one who listed stars, planets and humans.

And I don't worship the sun anymore than I would worship a worthless deity like that in the bible.

 

[gnostic]

As I understand it, the Constancy Laws of Einstein state that, overall, the total amount of mass and energy in the Universe does not change.

Einstein was referring to the universe. I wasn't giving an example of the universe, or galaxy or even planet earth. My example was just one object, one matter, a person.

A single matter (like yourself) won't mean much to the universe.

My example showed that a person's mass will change over the course of time, from birth to death.

I have asked you - do you (currently) have the same mass as the day you were born? Do you (currently) have the same mass when you were 5, 10, 20, etc?

If you don't, then where did all those mass come from?

The number of mass in matter, such as in the human body, can changed. At some point in time, you would stop growing in height, but you can become fatter or skinnier, putting on or taking off mass, depending on your diet, fluid intake, if you exercise or not, if you are healthy or have a disease. Any one of these can affect the number of mass you have in your body.

An astronaut who spend prolonged period in space, virtually becoming weightless due different gravity at space station, will lose body mass, because he is not using all his muscles.

So I am talking about mass in one matter, not the entire universe. Nothing we say or do will have any impact outside of this planet, let alone the rest of the universe.

 

[godnotgod]

Einstein was referring to the universe. I wasn't giving an example of the universe, or galaxy or even planet earth. My example was just one object, one matter, a person.

A single matter (like yourself) won't mean much to the universe.

My example showed that a person's mass will change over the course of time, from birth to death.

I have asked you - do you (currently) have the same mass as the day you were born? Do you (currently) have the same mass when you were 5, 10, 20, etc?

If you don't, then where did all those mass come from?

The number of mass in matter, such as in the human body, can changed. At some point in time, you would stop growing in height, but you can become fatter or skinnier, putting on or taking off mass, depending on your diet, fluid intake, if you exercise or not, if you are healthy or have a disease. Any one of these can affect the number of mass you have in your body.

An astronaut who spend prolonged period in space, virtually becoming weightless due different gravity at space station, will lose body mass, because he is not using all his muscles.

So I am talking about mass in one matter, not the entire universe. Nothing we say or do will have any impact outside of this planet, let alone the rest of the universe.

Are you separate in any way from the Universe? If so, where does this separation occur?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And Einstein is also dead and gone.
Now......prove the constancy !

E=MC^2, M=E/C^2