A Single Human Family -- Will We Ever Get There?

[Trailblazer]

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.

"I go away and come again unto you." John 14:28
The question is: HOW was Jesus going to come again unto you? I believe it was in Spirit, not in the same body.

But let's look at John 14:28 in the context of John 14.

Jesus said He would pray to the Father would give you another Comforter, and then Jesus said that He would not leave you comfortless, He would come to you (which is congruent with all the other verses in John 14, 15 and 16 wherein Jesus said that He would send the Comforter from the Father.) Jesus never said that the Holy Spirit would come again unto you; He said I go away, and come again unto you (John 14:28)

But before that Jesus said and the world seeth me no more (John 14:19) which indicates that Jesus would not be returning in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2000 years ago. Then Jesus said that the Father would send the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost, in His name.

So the hundred-dollar question is who is the Comforter?

I believe that Jesus was a Comforter as indicated in verses 16 and 18, and I believe Jesus was a Comforter because He brought the Holy Spirit. I know that Christians believe that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, but that makes no sense because verse 26 says that the Comforter will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever Jesus said unto you. Only a man can do that, not a spirit, and if Jesus was a Comforter it makes sense that "another Comforter" would be another man who brought the Holy Spirit and reminded people of what Jesus had said and taught things just as Jesus had taught things.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

[Wildswanderer]

know that Christians believe that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, but that makes no sense because verse 26 says that the Comforter will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever Jesus said unto you

Um.. and then you go on to quote the verse that clearly says the comforter is the Holy Spirit... Which you just said he wasn't.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, I see...you are heretics. If Christ isn't raised physically we are all doomed.

That is not true. It is just what you have come to believe, a church doctrine you bought hook line and sinker. All Christians do not believe that Jesus was raised physically from the dead and they are reading the same Bible you are reading. What does that tell you, logically?

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

We would all be doomed if Jesus had not sacrificed Himself on the cross. That is what saved us, not the resurrection. The resurrection was just an add-on, stories men wrote, and these men never even knew Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

Um.. and then you go on to quote the verse that clearly says the comforter is the Holy Spirit... Which you just said he wasn't.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Baha'u'llah was the another Comforter who was sent by the Father.

The Comforter was the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Jesus, and then the Father sent the Holy Spirit to Baha'u'llah, who was another Comforter.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Baha'u'llah testified of Jesus. Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha'u'llah wrote:

"We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified."
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

 

[Wildswanderer]

That is not true. It is just what you have come to believe, a church doctrine you bought hook line and sinker. All Christians do not believe that Jesus was raised physically from the dead and they are reading the same Bible you are reading. What does that tell you, logically?

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

We would all be doomed if Jesus had not sacrificed Himself on the cross. That is what saved us, not the resurrection. The resurrection was just an add-on, stories men wrote, and these men never even knew Jesus.

That there's lots of heretics who call themselves Christian.
If you have to rip out the resurrection why would you believe that the rest of his life story was right?

 

[Wildswanderer]

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said:

Lol you did it again! You really can't make this stuff up! It literally says he will send the spirit. Not that Jesus brought the spirit.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Comforter was the Holy Spirit that the Father sent to Jesus, and then the Father sent the Holy Spirit to Baha'u'llah, who was another Comforter.

Oh. My. Goodness. You just reversed the order of the verses to make it say the opposite of what it actually said. Hilarious! How can you listen to the "theologians" who feed you this nonsense?

 

[Trailblazer]

That there's lots of heretics who call themselves Christian.
If you have to rip out the resurrection why would you believe that the rest of his life story was right?

They are not heretics just because they don't believe in the bodily resurrection.
Believing in Jesus is what makes one a Christian. Jesus never said it was necessary to believe in the resurrection, that is a church teaching.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”

His life story told by? That opens up a Pandora's Box. How can we verify that anything in the NT is accurate?

 

[Audie]

It will validate the Fermi Paradox and why there are no advanced aliens out there. They keep blowing themselves up

Or blow up anyone they find out about, before
they can get very advanced.

 

[Trailblazer]

It literally says he will send the spirit. Not that Jesus brought the spirit.

The Father sent the Spirit to Jesus and then Jesus brought the Spirit to the world. How do you think we got the Spirit if Jesus had not brought the Spirit?

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh. My. Goodness. You just reversed the order of the verses to make it say the opposite of what it actually said. Hilarious! How can you listen to the "theologians" who feed you this nonsense?

The Baha'i Faith does not have any theologians telling us what to believe.
We read and figure out what to believe by ourselves.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They are not heretics just because they don't believe in the bodily resurrection.
Believing in Jesus is what makes one a Christian. Jesus never said it was necessary to believe in the resurrection, that is a church teaching.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”

His life story told by? That opens up a Pandora's Box. How can we verify that anything in the NT is accurate?

As I already said if you believe that, you don't really believe at all. You can't just pick the parts you want to... unless you are in a cult.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Father sent the Spirit to Jesus and then Jesus brought the Spirit to the world. How do you think we got the Spirit if Jesus had not brought the Spirit?

No, The Holy Spirit came down after the resurrection and ascension at pentecost.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Baha'i Faith does not have any theologians telling us what to believe.
We read and figure out what to believe by ourselves.

Well that explains why it doesn't make sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I already said if you believe that, you don't really believe at all. You can't just pick the parts you want to... unless you are in a cult.

I can pick whatever want to and I will, given there is no reason to believe all of the NT is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, The Holy Spirit came down after the resurrection and ascension at pentecost.

It sure did, but then it came down again in the latter days, in 1844 AD.

The Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost.

Acts 2 King James Version (KJV)

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And then the Holy Spirit was sent again in the last days that we are now living in. In that same chapter in which we find the Pentecost account, we have (Acts 2:17-21) showing that God would once again pour out His Spirit upon all flesh:

Acts 2:17-21 was spoken by the prophet Joel, and it was a prophecy that referred to the last days, the days when Christ would return.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2:17-21And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:17-21 is a prophecy and it has been fulfilled by the coming of Baha’u’llah.

All these wonders in the heavens and signs on the earth happened before Baha’u’llah appeared, and thus He fulfilled the prophecies for the Return of Christ.

Revelation 6:12-14 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.…

Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mark 13:24-26”But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

These three events would take place successively, each one in turn heralding a closer approach of the footsteps of the Messiah, until, shortly after the last of the three, the star-fall, He would appear.....

These prophecies gave already been fulfilled in the exact order predicted.

1. The Lisbon earthquake, 1755. 1755 Lisbon earthquake
2. The Dark Day, 1780. New England's Dark Day
3. The Falling Stars, 1833. The Falling of the Stars

 

[Truthseeker]

They raise large questions about ethics and morality, and I'd guess they're about as spiritual as the next religion. Which seems to underline my point: as far as the ethics of decency go, if you don't have them in you then you won't get them from religion ─ as witness the enormous number of churchmen involved in the matters I mentioned. And if you have the ethics of decency in you, you don't need religion ─ though of course you're free to be as religious as you want.

It's not from religion, but from a spiritual Source that is behind the religion. If you tap into that through praying, meditation, striving to live what you've read in the scriptures. There's a distinction between being religious and not doing those things above, then you have less of a chance to be ethical, moral, and spiritual.

I gave you a list of events where religion is and was used for perverted purposes.

Yes, I know. I acknowledge those events. I also said sometimes religion is used for perverted purposes.

The churches, as I said, have been on trial for the last thirty years having their dirty sexual linen washed in public. In Canada they're looking into first nations deaths in institutions for children, many of which were run by religions, and finding horrible things.

If you're a good person by nature, or you seek to be a good person, the right church people might help you, but they're only one of your options. As you said, religion, like anything else, can be used for good or ill.

The first nations in Canada have their own religions that are think are valid. I think all residential schools were run by churches. They were prejudiced.

It is mainly religious leaders that seek power that pervert religion. That is not moral at all. No one should follow them.

You don't recognize there is a Source of goodness behind religions originally. I can understand why.

 

[Truthseeker]

I expect survivors....miserable survivors.
So I agree on the wisdom of avoiding war.
Alas, Putin & 58% of Russians disagree.
And China is just getting started.

Is that a polling number you got somewhere, the 58%?

Miserable survivors that realize that this must not happen again!

 

[Truthseeker]

Spirituality is a problem in Russia.
Leaders & citizens have expressed their feeling
that Ukraine is Russian, & feel that it must be
returned at any cost. Such are their ethics &
morals.

The citizens are saying that? Where do you get that from? If that's true, their morals are screwed.

 

[Truthseeker]

That was an "or" question. Which option do you answer "absolutely?"

Accept how they wish to live.