A Single Human Family -- Will We Ever Get There?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sure. Basically what I said, conflict is the price we pay for diverse worldviews, cultures, viewpoints, beliefs etc.

I think the benefit of being able to be varied and different, with rich variety of culture and outlooks, outweighs the benefit we would get to get along but at the cost of everyone thinking and feeling the same way.

I can't think of a worse hell than where there's just one (or zero) religions, philosophies, creeds, abilities, stories, etc etc.

I'm not sure that conflict is a necessary result of different world-views. I vote for a different politics than my neighbour, and though he goes to church, I am an atheist. We still enjoy a drink together, and can talk genially. So getting along does not mean that we have to think and feel the same way. It just means we have to allow each the privilege of thinking and feeling as we will.

One of my longest-standing rules as a manager of people, especially when called upon to resolve conflicts among them, was that "people's feelings are real, and we cannot resolve conflict as long as we say 'you shouldn't feel that way.'"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Do you think it best to tell others how they should live, so that you will accept them and get along, or would you accept how they wish to live, and hope they do the same for you?

Absolutely.

That was an "or" question. Which option do you answer "absolutely?"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think it is pointless to try to tell others how they should live, but I am still going to do what I think is right.

I would not accept how dictators, pedophiles, and serial killers wish to live, for instance; I think the right thing to do is stop those people from living how they wish to live.

Yes, of course, but we do that for the safety of everyone else. The only question is how do you stop them from doing what they do? Is killing them necessary? Would keeping them away from society work just as well?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think that humans can do that, but realistically, they probably won't.

The world may still be unified, and the human race may finally realize that they are all citizens of the same planet.

But would they all do it of their own free will?

Or would it be done through conquest - by some world conqueror or empire? That seems pretty nasty, although in the end, if everyone is assimilated, then the world would be unified and humanity would be as one.

Assimilation seems a horrible thing to me. Even in nice, peaceful nations like my own Canada, or Finland and quite a few others internal dissent and opposition is tolerated -- so long as it is peaceful.

 

[Audie]

I would also like to point out that many conflicts naturally arise over how we should learn to live together, so that shared goal does not necessarily preclude human extinction through warfare.

At the risk of a godwin, we point out
that Marx, Hitler, Mao and some other
notables in history were idealists.

 

[sun rise]

Only an external alien threat could unite humanity. But it would probably be too late.

Not today. Some would choose the aliens. Even if cthulhu showed up, some would become its buddies so they'd be the last eaten.

 

[sun rise]

At the risk of a godwin, we point out
that Marx, Hitler, Mao and some other
notables in history were idealists.

I hate to agree with you but I do. Some "ideals" are dark indeed.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm not sure that conflict is a necessary result of different world-views. I vote for a different politics than my neighbour, and though he goes to church, I am an atheist. We still enjoy a drink together, and can talk genially. So getting along does not mean that we have to think and feel the same way. It just means we have to allow each the privilege of thinking and feeling as we will.

One of my longest-standing rules as a manager of people, especially when called upon to resolve conflicts among them, was that "people's feelings are real, and we cannot resolve conflict as long as we say 'you shouldn't feel that way.'"

I don't disagree with you on individual levels. A broad view that includes setting legal, political, social or ethical boundaries though? I think that's a different story.

Also, I don't think conflict means you can't be friendly. Any time navigating a boundary is required is a conflict. I think you can handle conflicts peacefully some of the time, but not all the time. Especially where one ideology cannot tolerate something about another ideology (whether one finds it justified or unjustified.) There's going to be times where a middle ground isn't acceptable because sometimes even a little of something is unacceptable.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't believe that global homogeny is possible either. However how about "unity in diversity"? How about we accept each other for who we are?

Depends on what you mean by unity and acceptance. There are things both you and I cannot accept, but also cannot remove. There are ideological goals I won't go along with. There are people who aren't doing anything illegal but are still bad enough that I don't want to be around them. There's some level of acceptance in all of those. But not necessarily unity.

 

[Trailblazer]

You need to read the rest of the book.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus is 'coming back' to earth.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

 

[Wildswanderer]

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus is 'coming back' to earth.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Seriously?

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'

• Revelation 11:15

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
1st Corinthians 15

Matthew 24:27-30, “For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I just saw @Revoltingest's thread on China backing Russia (although slightly covertly). Rather than answering it, I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question of my own -- one that, as a Humanist, has been at the forefront of my thought for decades.

And that question is this: "Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family, and that our continued survival is becoming more and more dependent on whether we can learn to live together, rather than continually try to win some special place over the rest of humanity?"

Or are we doomed to continue trying to outdo each other until, finally and ultimately, none of us is left, and the cockroaches get their turn at world domination?

It will validate the Fermi Paradox and why there are no advanced aliens out there. They keep blowing themselves up

 

[Trailblazer]

Seriously?

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'

• Revelation 11:15

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
1st Corinthians 15

Matthew 24:27-30, “For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

Yes, seriously. All of these verses refer to Baha'u'llah, who was the return of Christ and the return of the Son of man. Baha'u'llah was also the seventh angel.

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev. 11:14) The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muḥammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.” (Ez. 30:1–3)

Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.” (Rev. 11:15)

The seventh angel is a man qualified with heavenly attributes, who will arise with heavenly qualities and character. Voices will be raised, so that the appearance of the Divine Manifestation will be proclaimed and diffused. In the day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts, and at the epoch of the divine cycle of the Omnipotent which is promised and mentioned in all the books and writings of the Prophets—in that day of God, the Spiritual and Divine Kingdom will be established, and the world will be renewed…..”
Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 56-57

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes, seriously. All of these verses refer to Baha'u'llah, who was the return of Christ and the return of the Son of man. Baha'u'llah was also the seventh angel.

Funny stuff!

 

[Trailblazer]

Funny stuff!

What is really funny is believing Jesus is going to return to earth. When there is no evidence to support such a belief that makes it wishful thinking, better known as a fantasy.

The reason Jesus has not come in spite of the fact that all the prophecies for His return having been fulfilled is that Jesus never planned to come back to earth, as the Bible says:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

no more

1. nothing further.
   "there was no more to be said about it"
2. no further.
   "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
3. exist no longer.
   "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
4. never again.
   "mention his name no more to me"
5. neither.
   "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"

Definitions from Oxford Languages

But if you want to you can keep waiting for something that is never going to happen and you have plenty of company.

 

[Ella S.]

Yes, of course, but we do that for the safety of everyone else. The only question is how do you stop them from doing what they do? Is killing them necessary? Would keeping them away from society work just as well?

These are complex questions that require nuanced answers. I don't have them.

I don't see a necessity in capital punishment. I knew someone who claimed that capital punishment was cheaper than leaving prisoners locked up and who tried to make a utilitarian argument for capital punishment based on that, but we were different forms of utilitarianism.

I am an averagist and a welfarist and I believe that we should minimize welfare inequality at the highest average we can manage. They were a totalist and a preference utilitarian. Our disagreement never really went anywhere, but we had the same argument almost twice a week over a few months.

I would make the argument that prison should be seen as a place of comfortable rehabilitation and separation from the non-incarcerated population rather than a place of punishment, but some people believe that punishment itself is necessary for justice.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

These are complex questions that require nuanced answers. I don't have them.

I don't see a necessity in capital punishment. I knew someone who claimed that capital punishment was cheaper than leaving prisoners locked up and who tried to make a utilitarian argument for capital punishment based on that, but we were different forms of utilitarianism.

I am an averagist and a welfarist and I believe that we should minimize welfare inequality at the highest average we can manage. They were a totalist and a preference utilitarian. Our disagreement never really went anywhere, but we had the same argument almost twice a week over a few months.

I would make the argument that prison should be seen as a place of comfortable rehabilitation and separation from the non-incarcerated population rather than a place of punishment, but some people believe that punishment itself is necessary for justice.

Our thoughts are quite similar in this regard.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What is really funny is believing Jesus is going to return to earth. When there is no evidence to support such a belief that makes it wishful thinking, better known as a fantasy.

You don't read Revelation?
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Or Thessalonians?

 

[Wildswanderer]

But if you want to you can keep waiting for something that is never going to happen and you have plenty of company.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't read Revelation?
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

"and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" That does not mean the same thing to everyone who reads it.
Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Or Thessalonians?

What does that mean to you?