A rare occurence from God

[kjw47]

Ahh, I see, the 8 people that went into the ark was .1% of the population on the world at that time, and how do you know that?

Israel was 99% of the world population in their time, how do you know that?

How do you know how many Apostles and Christians were murdered to come up with 99% misled?

God was only with Israel religion on earth in OT when they stood strong. The rest of those on earth remained in darkness--controlled by satan. I did not say Israel was 99% I said when they fell 99% of the earth was in darkness.

How many do think were living in Noahs day?800-8= 792 humans= 99%--so the number is actually larger than 99.9 because there were many living then.

 

[kjw47]

I believe my information comes from Jesus and as God He knows everything.

Then why did he have to be taught all of it? John 5:30) How come only the Fathers will matters?
God is king of eternity--Why did Jesus have to be appointed( Dan 7:13-15)--if he were God he already would have been king.--Many more realities like this in the bible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If Israel did not serve a trinity god--it does not exist.
Everyone knows what a relationship is.

Do you know what relationship means in relation to father, son, and holy spirit (christ's spirit)?

Not human relationship. No. Everyone does not know what it means.

Edit.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The trinity was made up at the councils of Catholicism. Councils held because they did not know truth. No trinity was being taught at the first council of Nicea, it was added later.
The greeks were refusing to go to a religion with a single God. As well they wanted their pagan celebrations and practices--these got turned into Christmas and Easter.

Are you reading my posts?????

Trinity: relationship between father, son, and god's spirit.

Show me where there is no relationship between father, son, and spirit.

With scripture

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Facts prove 100%--no trinity ever existed.

How do you define as trinity???

Sounds like a hot word for you. I used synonyms. You are still stuck on "man's" definition of that word not the scriptural definition of it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Only those living now to do Jesus' Fathers will get to enter his kingdom( Matthew 7:21)--and Jesus shows there clearly not all calling on the name of the Lord will make into that kingdom. Yet they all believe.
Any can be apart of the 99%--Satan is a gazillion x smarter than any mortal--He knows exactly which buttons to push. Not all who try will make it.

This says nothing about christ relationship with his father.

Show scriptures where this relationship do not exist.

And commentary. Scripture does not-does not speak for itself

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@kjw47

Can you prove that your belief is a 100% fact?

The bible does not speak for itself. Facts have multuple criteria that proves what is fact and what is fiction. It does not depend on a person's testimony. Its not depended on second hand knowledge (Moses said it was true so its true). Its not depended on beliefs; we cant believe something to make it a fact. Its either fact or fiction.

Experiences are facts to the person(s) who have the experiences. Your experience with god is not a universal fact. Its something that is true to you.

To state something is 100% fact, you need multuple criteria (historical evidence doesnt prove experiences; we guess that by what we find about a said persons culture. Its guess work) Supernatural is not like proving George Washington existed. God is not fact.

Prove your belief is 100% fact.

Also, why are you not part of the 99% people who are lossed and misguided?

Create reasons not shared by other christians.

 

[Oeste]

@KJW:

I need you to explain how this:

Christendom lives in darkness--they are rarely correct about anything--Catholicism translating has them all mislead. Only Catholicism translating remained when the protestants translated. They did not have a clue as to what was truth by then. No one was allowed to read the bible for nearly 1000 years after the councils were held. It was kept in latin all that time. Only upper clergy were allowed to read the bible back then.

Comes even close to explaining this:

No, it was the Watchtower that spoke of dead men rising in 1925, not me. They chastised "Christendom" for not preaching this cherished "truth" remember?

But if everyone living in 1925 is dead then everyone living in 1914 is dead also. Is this correct?

Does this mean God's prophet, the Watchtower Organization, was wrong about 1914 and 1925 while "Christendom" was correct? How can that be? Did the prophets of Baal and Asherah prevail at Mt. Carmel? Did Elijah tell them "When I spoke for God I spoke in error"??

So everyone who claimed Jesus appeared invisibly in 1919 and chose your Organization as the earth's sole exclusive prophet to preach 1914, 1925, 1940, 1975 and 2000 are no longer in your Organization or have passed away?

Are they still claiming your Organization was chosen in 1919 to preach these things, or have they "repented" and now claim your Organization wasn't exclusively chosen at all?

Because they told us our salvation depends on obeying them, since they are the "voice of God":

"It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370

"The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441

"Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning."" Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402​

“Your attitude toward the wheatlike anointed “brothers” of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into “everlasting cutting-off” or receive “everlasting life”. Watchtower 1981 Aug p. 26​

I'm just wondering why the "voice of God" needs "correction". Obviously, if God spoke it, and they "corrected" it, then they are false prophets. No man can "correct" God's word.

Likewise if God did not speak it, and yet they spoke it, they are false prophets because that is what scripture tells us:

9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and who give lying divinations. They shall not be in the council of my people, nor be enrolled in the register of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am the Lord God. (Ezekiel 13)​

Obviously you still have people in your Organization who "speak with the voice of God" yet speak in error:

View attachment 20940​

Have these people who told us our Creator promised a "peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away" been purged from your Organization or are they still guiding it?

If you can't respond to questions and comments, why on earth did you start this thread?

Now please, answer my prior questions. I put them in red for you. This should make it real easy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@kjw47

If there were no trinity (bible: relationship betwen father/son/holy spirit), then these wont make sense.

• My Father is greater than I [Jesus].”—John 14:28. *
  
  
• “I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.”—John 20:17.
  
  
• “To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6.
  
  
• “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—1 Peter 1:3.
  
  
• “These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God.”—Revelation 3:14. *

Should You Believe in the Trinity? (JW)

Try to understand the trinity according to scripture

You need to see the context of the word and the relationship to how christians (real ones not just JW) use it.

The idea is: jesus is not the father but his status makes him special (your words: perfect). As a result, he is aligned with god. (No one is perfect but god) If not, jesus would need a savior too.

God did not make the first humans perfect or they would have not sinned. Perfect people do not sin.

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries any through many controversies.” Is the Trinity Doctrine in the Bible? | Bible Questions (JW.org)​

The word trinity is not in the bible

The concept is.

You are debating man's use of the word; not the definition of the word itself. You keep debating over man's stuff, you won't concentrate on what scripture says instead

"Christendom's unchristian doctrine of a Trinity of "God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost" will be rejected by all enlightened mankind as being a blasphemous pagan lie." Paradise restored to Mankind - By Theocracy p.388 (JW)​

That's why you have to go off the biblical definition of the trinity.

I am not a trinitian because

I disagree with how christians USE the word not the scriptural content and context of the word itself.

Translations wouldnt define gods relationship with jesus if the concept of the trinity wasnt biblical.

According to the bible, I agree that the trinity is there.
According to The Church they believe the same but their Expression is different.

When you go to Catholic Mass their emphasis is on jesus and gods blessing to jesus not himself.

Before The Watch Tower of June 1882 stated: “At this time, therefore, the doctrine of three Gods was invented …”” Proclaimers p.125, people were killed for worshiping statues and doing anything pagan.​

You are probably attacking modern views

Not one before Constantine and definitely not scriptural.

The Watch Tower of June 1882 stated: “At this time, therefore, the doctrine of three Gods was invented …”” Proclaimers p.125​

This is not the trinity. There are no three gods in the trinity. There is only one: the father

You got to read scripture and understand The Church internally to understand it. Books and history are just that. People were killed for believing anything pagan before and after Constantine.

That is why you are wrong. You are following the wrong interpretation of Catholism (The people of The Church/apostles) based on how you define its history. Also, Roman Catholicism doesnt speak for all catholics.



You must to reply to my post with scripture and commentary or you debating against the wind.

Waste of time when you dont post scripture and support of your positions relationship with my posts.

Conversing doesn't mean repeating your objection without addressing my posts with comments and scripture.

Without scripture and commentary, this debate is void.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@kjw47

Please read my posts (not all at the same time, mind you; be mindful of your reply)

Take your time

Use scripture

Support your points: with scripture And commentary

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@kjw47

Catholics at one time killed pagans for participating in what they called idol worship. Things many ant-Catholics today opposed shared similar feelings of the original christian beliefs until later in the Roman picked it up again. Unfortunately, today's Roman Catholic or Catholic in general shifted from quote on quote worshiping idols (if one likes) to, after popes came a long, more worshiping what the idols represented. The reason the idols (or statues) looked as if they were worshiped back them was because people were illiterate. So, they used things like Carpet Pages (carpet design with a letter and pictures sown to depict the "beautiful word of god." So, the bible was depicted in pictures since people could not read. Same as with statues. That's why you see relief statues because they felt that free standing statues people will worship (and get killed because of it).

Roman Catholicism didn't promote worship to statues. Christianity in general before Romanism did not. Medieval European history (art I'm taking up now) is very interesting in its art.

While you can say trinity (relationship with father, son, and holy spirit) is pagan all you want, but the actual word not man's depiction of it is a scriptural concept. People actually believed that the son, jesus christ, had a father who was the creator. They also believed that when christ died his (holy) spirit came among people and that's when the apostles spread the word and evangelized.

Jump to today, that history is still going on. Jehovah's Witness, evangelists, and in part Catholics are still pushing christ and the belief on pagans (like myself and many people on RF) as if your truth is the truth; it is not.

Unfortunately, you and many are reinventing the wheel.

If you want people to come to christ and share the truth you know if, you need to change your approach. I know you said you "tried" before but, if you think of it, is this approach any better than the one you said you tried? I'm thinking it was more frustration; everyone has their own truth.

I honestly in my heart feel if we didn't have laws against it, christians whether peer pressured and/or not, would kill pagans for not believing what they do. There are subtle ways to "kill" people from indoctrination and others like befriending someone for the sole purpose of saving them.

There are many ways to evangelize. There are many ways to spread the gospel.

The former is very rude and will not bring people to christ until they for themselves find christ and god. The latter is more educational. It will also help individuals find peers who think as they do without displacing their beliefs and thoughts as false.

It's a growing process. Sounds like you're stuck in your ways.

This post was for any who read it. I assume you won't but then, I like to converse about things of meat not go back and forth about truths without dialogue.

You can read some of this history here: The Christian Church and its Persecutions of Pagans Not all of my info is online. Though, it takes good will and acceptance to believe me especially online.

 

[kjw47]

Do you know what relationship means in relation to father, son, and holy spirit (christ's spirit)?

Not human relationship. No. Everyone does not know what it means.

Edit.

Yes its as the bible teaches--Everything done by either is for the Fathers will alone.

 

[kjw47]

Are you reading my posts?????

Trinity: relationship between father, son, and god's spirit.

Show me where there is no relationship between father, son, and spirit.

With scripture

Even mortals have a relationship with God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Even mortals have a relationship with God.

Are you reading my posts?????

Trinity: relationship between father, son, and god's spirit.

Show me where there is no relationship between father, son, and spirit.

With scripture

Are you able to have a conversation??

 

[kjw47]

How do you define as trinity???

Sounds like a hot word for you. I used synonyms. You are still stuck on "man's" definition of that word not the scriptural definition of it.

When Jesus attended the synagogues and temples his first 30 years. He was taught, served and worshipped--a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)-- He never refuted that God, he taught it--John 20:17, Rev 3:12

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes its as the bible teaches--Everything done by either is for the Fathers will alone.

Do you know what a relationship is between father, son (human), and spirit (christ)?

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47

Can you prove that your belief is a 100% fact?

The bible does not speak for itself. Facts have multuple criteria that proves what is fact and what is fiction. It does not depend on a person's testimony. Its not depended on second hand knowledge (Moses said it was true so its true). Its not depended on beliefs; we cant believe something to make it a fact. Its either fact or fiction.

Experiences are facts to the person(s) who have the experiences. Your experience with god is not a universal fact. Its something that is true to you.

To state something is 100% fact, you need multuple criteria (historical evidence doesnt prove experiences; we guess that by what we find about a said persons culture. Its guess work) Supernatural is not like proving George Washington existed. God is not fact.

Prove your belief is 100% fact.

Also, why are you not part of the 99% people who are lossed and misguided?

Create reasons not shared by other christians.

Whoever finds the real Jesus. He sends those to his Father, The Father shows that one-- thus they know 100% God is real.

 

[kjw47]

@KJW:

I need you to explain how this:



Comes even close to explaining this:



If you can't respond to questions and comments, why on earth did you start this thread?

Now please, answer my prior questions. I put them in red for you. This should make it real easy.

1925 is dead. Its 2018--This is where ones need to look. Many corrections have been made--Someone had to or this could never be a truth-Daniel 12:4--it took correcting 1750 years of false teachings.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When Jesus attended the synagogues and temples his first 30 years. He was taught, served and worshipped--a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)-- He never refuted that God, he taught it--John 20:17, Rev 3:12

Yes. I know.

Go beyond that.

Jesus has a relationship with his father

His son has a relationship with his father

His human son when resurrected spirit came upon people

Christ spirit has a relationship with the people

He still has a relationship with his father (at his right hand)

Relationship between faith and son is: duality
Relationship between father, son, and spirit is: trinity

It is not a made up word.

Ignore what man says about the trinity

Focus on scripture ONLY

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47

If there were no trinity (bible: relationship betwen father/son/holy spirit), then these wont make sense.



Should You Believe in the Trinity? (JW)

Try to understand the trinity according to scripture

You need to see the context of the word and the relationship to how christians (real ones not just JW) use it.

The idea is: jesus is not the father but his status makes him special (your words: perfect). As a result, he is aligned with god. (No one is perfect but god) If not, jesus would need a savior too.

God did not make the first humans perfect or they would have not sinned. Perfect people do not sin.

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopedia Britannica states: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries any through many controversies.” Is the Trinity Doctrine in the Bible? | Bible Questions (JW.org)​

The word trinity is not in the bible

The concept is.

You are debating man's use of the word; not the definition of the word itself. You keep debating over man's stuff, you won't concentrate on what scripture says instead

"Christendom's unchristian doctrine of a Trinity of "God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost" will be rejected by all enlightened mankind as being a blasphemous pagan lie." Paradise restored to Mankind - By Theocracy p.388 (JW)​

That's why you have to go off the biblical definition of the trinity.

I am not a trinitian because

I disagree with how christians USE the word not the scriptural content and context of the word itself.

Translations wouldnt define gods relationship with jesus if the concept of the trinity wasnt biblical.

According to the bible, I agree that the trinity is there.
According to The Church they believe the same but their Expression is different.

When you go to Catholic Mass their emphasis is on jesus and gods blessing to jesus not himself.

Before The Watch Tower of June 1882 stated: “At this time, therefore, the doctrine of three Gods was invented …”” Proclaimers p.125, people were killed for worshiping statues and doing anything pagan.​

You are probably attacking modern views

Not one before Constantine and definitely not scriptural.

The Watch Tower of June 1882 stated: “At this time, therefore, the doctrine of three Gods was invented …”” Proclaimers p.125​

This is not the trinity. There are no three gods in the trinity. There is only one: the father

You got to read scripture and understand The Church internally to understand it. Books and history are just that. People were killed for believing anything pagan before and after Constantine.

That is why you are wrong. You are following the wrong interpretation of Catholism (The people of The Church/apostles) based on how you define its history. Also, Roman Catholicism doesnt speak for all catholics.



You must to reply to my post with scripture and commentary or you debating against the wind.

Waste of time when you dont post scripture and support of your positions relationship with my posts.

Conversing doesn't mean repeating your objection without addressing my posts with comments and scripture.

Without scripture and commentary, this debate is void.

The concept is because of translating errors.