A nice respectful thread on "doubt"

[Manipulated]

Questioning Theist- healthy, seeks knowledge about God.

Doubting Atheist- unhealthy, rejects knowledge about God.

I don't want to hear more about how God does not exist and all that, spare me

 

[Magic Man]

Questioning Theist- healthy, seeks knowledge about God.

Doubting Atheist- unhealthy, rejects knowledge about God.

I don't want to hear more about how God does not exist and all that, spare me

There's nothing unhealthy about not believing in God. It's not that atheists reject knowledge about God, we just don't see it as actual knowledge about God. We are not "rejecting God", we are simply saying that the evidence that makes you believe God exists is not sufficient for a reasonable belief that God exists.

It's good for a theist to seek knowledge about God, but you don't get very far if you just start with an assumption about God. You don't learn much when you only ask superficial questions. You tend to learn more when you ask questions not looking for a specific answer. If you start with a certain concept of God, and try to fill in more details by questioning, then you're going to make the details fit the concept, rather than making your concept fit the details you learn.

 

[fantome profane]

Questioning Theist- healthy, seeks knowledge about God.

Doubting Atheist- unhealthy, rejects knowledge about God.

I don't want to hear more about how God does not exist and all that, spare me

So if I understand you are saying that there are limits to what you would be willing to question. Questions about the nature of “God” are healthy, but questions about the existence of “God” are unhealthy. Are there other things that are beyond question? Can you question the divinity of Christ? Can you question the existence of the afterlife? Can you question the benevolence? of “God”? How do you determine if a question is healthy or unhealthy? And is it healthy to question that?

 

[Willamena]

What do you make of uncertainty? Do you fear it? Does it inspire you?

Yes and yes, and no. The beauty of it is that even fear and inspiration have inherent uncertainty.

How much and how often do you question your beliefs?

Only when something happens to change them. Then I'm like: "Why did you let that change you? What's up wi' dat?"

Do your beliefs evolve to accommodate new information and experience?

Can they not? :sarcastic

Or do you just do away with beliefs altogether and ride the uncertainty train, content to sit back and take in the scenery?

I don't see that as an "or" situation.

 

[Willamena]

Questioning Theist- healthy, seeks knowledge about God.

Doubting Atheist- unhealthy, rejects knowledge about God.

I don't want to hear more about how God does not exist and all that, spare me

Questioning Atheist: healthy, seeks knowledge about the way in which God exists.

Doubting Theist: unhealthy, rejects himself.

 

[Manipulated]

So if I understand you are saying that there are limits to what you would be willing to question. Questions about the nature of “God” are healthy, but questions about the existence of “God” are unhealthy. Are there other things that are beyond question? Can you question the divinity of Christ? Can you question the existence of the afterlife? Can you question the benevolence? of “God”? How do you determine if a question is healthy or unhealthy? And is it healthy to question that?

From my own experience, I have questioned God and his existance in countless ways, and found reality through suffering.

But questions about the existence of god are unhealthy.

They are healthy, If you seek, you find.
question everything. This is all based on theism, through questioning i have come to know there is a God. From my perspective, the atheist is the blind one and in doubt, as he has not chosen to question but to reject knowledge.

The atheist that seeks and questions without doubt is healthy because he will find.

 

[Manipulated]

Questioning Atheist: healthy, seeks knowledge about the way in which God exists.

Doubting Theist: unhealthy, rejects himself.

Nicely put.

 

[Magic Man]

From my own experience, I have questioned God and his existance in countless ways, and found reality through suffering.
They are healthy, If you seek, you find.
question everything. This is all based on theism, through questioning i have come to know there is a God. From my perspective, the atheist is the blind one and in doubt, as he has not chosen to question but to reject knowledge.

The atheist that seeks and questions without doubt is healthy because he will find.

Right. So, don't actually question. Just assume that there is this concept of God that others have taught you. The only question is how you can better serve this God.

Anyone who seeks and questions without doubt will only find that which he doesn't doubt. Then, there's no point in questioning. If I assume you are a woman, why would I ask you whether or not you are? I'd be implying something at that point, and not actually looking for an answer. That's what we call a rhetorical question, and it serves more to educate others, than to find answers for ourselves.

 

[Manipulated]

Right. So, don't actually question. Just assume that there is this concept of God that others have taught you. The only question is how you can better serve this God.

Anyone who seeks and questions without doubt will only find that which he doesn't doubt. Then, there's no point in questioning. If I assume you are a woman, why would I ask you whether or not you are? I'd be implying something at that point, and not actually looking for an answer. That's what we call a rhetorical question, and it serves more to educate others, than to find answers for ourselves.

You have sucessfully written nonsense

 

[Magic Man]

You have sucessfully written nonsense

All right, I'll make it simple. If you ask a question without doubting, you will only get the answer you are expecting. You will not learn anything, just affirm what you already believe. If you question because of sincere doubt, you will get the correct answer, even if it's different from your original belief. If you don't doubt, then you won't accept anything that contradicts your pre-conceived belief, and you won't actually learn anything new.

 

[Manipulated]

All right, I'll make it simple. If you ask a question without doubting, you will only get the answer you are expecting. You will not learn anything, just affirm what you already believe. If you question because of sincere doubt, you will get the correct answer, even if it's different from your original belief. If you don't doubt, then you won't accept anything that contradicts your pre-conceived belief, and you won't actually learn anything new.

It depends to whom your asking questions. What you are saying would make sense if you were answering your own question.

 

[Magic Man]

It depends to whom your asking questions. What you are saying would make sense if you were answering your own question.

What you are saying, by not doubting when you question, is the equivalent of you answering your own question. If you doubt when you question, then you're trying to find the correct answer from a source other than yourself.

 

[Manipulated]

What you are saying, by not doubting when you question, is the equivalent of you answering your own question. If you doubt when you question, then you're trying to find the correct answer from a source other than yourself.

lol..

 

[Magic Man]

lol..

Yeah, what was I thinking? I shouldn't have even bothered answering someone who already claimed that they don't actually doubt things, and they aren't actually looking for answers, just affirmation of their own beliefs. Oh, well, I tried.

 

[Manipulated]

Yeah, what was I thinking? I shouldn't have even bothered answering someone who already claimed that they don't actually doubt things, and they aren't actually looking for answers, just affirmation of their own beliefs. Oh, well, I tried.

Oh mball, your true nature has been revealed to me so many times here on RF, so I have little faith in anything you say. :sorry1:

No-one is free from doubt, I said its unhealthy, you twist words.

No hard feelings.

 

[Willamena]

Doubt and uncertainty are not the same thing. For instance, one can be certain of doubt, or doubtful of the certainty of things.

 

[Magic Man]

Oh mball, your true nature has been revealed to me so many times here on RF, so I have little faith in anything you say. :sorry1:

No-one is free from doubt, I said its unhealthy, you twist words.

No hard feelings.

Oooo, what is my true nature? (Is it just my true nature of being different from you, or is there more to it?)

Even if you just say that doubt is unhealthy, that's bad enough. Doubt is fine, it leads to true knowledge and understanding. Not doubting leads to repeated mistakes.

No hard feelings. I'm just trying to figure out the "reason" behind your assertions.

 

[Willamena]

If you ask a question without doubting, you will only get the answer you are expecting. You will not learn anything, just affirm what you already believe.

Let's say that I have no doubt that my paradigm of reality accurately reflects reality. I ask a question about reality of another person, intended to explore their paradigm, and get an answer I didn't expect. The answer challenges my paradigm, but seems to make sense. Doubt then occurs only after I get a reply to the question I asked.

If you question because of sincere doubt, you will get the correct answer, even if it's different from your original belief.

I have no idea how you can presume that any answer other than your own are "correct." Or, to put it another way, it is only "correct" because it is already your answer.

 

[doppelganger]

I have no idea how you can presume that any answer other than your own are "correct." Or, to put it another way, it is only "correct" because it is already your answer.

By presuming it is "correct" by virtue of the perspective from which it is viewed.

 

[Magic Man]

Let's say that I have no doubt that my paradigm of reality accurately reflects reality. I ask a question about reality of another person, intended to explore their paradigm, and get an answer I didn't expect. The answer challenges my paradigm, but seems to make sense. Doubt then occurs only after I get a reply to the question I asked.

Yes, there always has to be a cause for doubt. That's true. But, if you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of the validity of the other person's reality, then there's no point in the original question.

I have no idea how you can presume that any answer other than your own are "correct." Or, to put it another way, it is only "correct" because it is already your answer.

You're right, I shouldn't say "correct". I would say more that your answer might not take certain things into account. For instance, thinking that all football players are illiterate because, in your experience, you've never seen one who could read or write. That would be a "correct" enough assumption on your part because of your experience, but you should keep your eyes open to the possibility of one who is literate, instead of refusing to acknowledge the possibility, and keeping your assumption which doesn't take the whole picture into account.