A mental image

[savagewind]

Some people seem to think that to have an accurate mental image of God is important. The debate goes on and on for centuries with no peaceful resolution in sight. I think that now with the internet it is picking up so much so that if all the words about whether God is Just One or if God is a Trinity were on paper the weight would sink the Earth. Not a good thing.

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

To make a carved image of God is a sin. So important a sin that it is said to have been written on stone by God's own self/selves.

This is my opinion. A mental image of something is more important than a physical image. I think that if a physical image of God is prohibited then a mental image is too.

A physical image is not able to do anything. A mental image leads the believer in a way that he or she believes the image dictates.

 

[Nakosis]

Some people seem to think that to have an accurate mental image of God is important. The debate goes on and on for centuries with no peaceful resolution in sight. I think that now with the internet it is picking up so much so that if all the words about whether God is Just One or if God is a Trinity were on paper the weight would sink the Earth. Not a good thing.

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

To make a carved image of God is a sin. So important a sin that it is said to have been written on stone by God's own self/selves.

This is my opinion. A mental image of something is more important than a physical image. I think that if a physical image of God is prohibited then a mental image is too.

A physical image is not able to do anything. A mental image leads the believer in a way that he or she believes the image dictates.

That's why I'm an atheist. So I don't have to worry about fitting God to an image or mental concept.

I lack any beliefs about God. No images, no concepts, no certainty in any form.

 

[steveb1]

Some people seem to think that to have an accurate mental image of God is important. The debate goes on and on for centuries with no peaceful resolution in sight. I think that now with the internet it is picking up so much so that if all the words about whether God is Just One or if God is a Trinity were on paper the weight would sink the Earth. Not a good thing.

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

To make a carved image of God is a sin. So important a sin that it is said to have been written on stone by God's own self/selves.

This is my opinion. A mental image of something is more important than a physical image. I think that if a physical image of God is prohibited then a mental image is too.

A physical image is not able to do anything. A mental image leads the believer in a way that he or she believes the image dictates.

As Carl Jung demonstrated, the human psyche contains a "God archetype" which results in varying images of God. For those who do not experience God directly, the images function as symbols pointing toward an ineffable Reality. Jung and Joseph Campbell unveiled many "masks of God", each of them pointing to one or another facet of the divine nature and its interaction with humankind. This is why the imagery is important. It's not a construct based on the dictates of organized religion (although of course organized religion has made use of religious symbology for its own purposes). As Jung said, archetypal images are not rational structures meant to logically explain the world. Instead, they are self-revelations of an unconscious Self that spontaneously spring into the conscious psyche in fantasy, dreaming, creative bursts, etc.

So the images are crucial means of grappling with the Unknowable. I think that they are negative only after they have been "stolen", reified and dogmatized by organized religion.

Thus, it is not important that everyone agree about which among all the various God-symbols is "the right one". Organized religions select-out one or several God-attributes and make salvation dependent upon recognizing as valid only a particular religion's symbology. That's where the dogmatism and religious conflict lies.

So I think that a physical image of God, as found in mythology, is inherently "natural" and at the same time transcendent, because it points away from its mere phyiscality into a transmundane realm. Spirit in this case is embedded in a symbolic material artifact.

 

[Willamena]

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

It's kinship. People want to be kin, they want to be of a kind.

To make a carved image of God is a sin. So important a sin that it is said to have been written on stone by God's own self/selves.

This is my opinion. A mental image of something is more important than a physical image. I think that if a physical image of God is prohibited then a mental image is too.

A physical image is not able to do anything. A mental image leads the believer in a way that he or she believes the image dictates.

The mental image that is worshipped is idol, no less than a physical image.

Doesn't prevent us wanting kin.

 

[LuisDantas]

It does sound at least risky to assume that human beings are even capable of correctly understanding a deity.

It should follow that there is no good reason to expect other human beings to agree with one's own conceptions on the matter, let alone hold strong feelings about disagreements about such minor or even arbitrary things such as how many distinct aspects that deity would have.

 

[Bunyip]

Some people seem to think that to have an accurate mental image of God is important. The debate goes on and on for centuries with no peaceful resolution in sight. I think that now with the internet it is picking up so much so that if all the words about whether God is Just One or if God is a Trinity were on paper the weight would sink the Earth. Not a good thing.

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

To make a carved image of God is a sin. So important a sin that it is said to have been written on stone by God's own self/selves.

This is my opinion. A mental image of something is more important than a physical image. I think that if a physical image of God is prohibited then a mental image is too.

A physical image is not able to do anything. A mental image leads the believer in a way that he or she believes the image dictates.

I don't think that all religions believe their God even has a physical appearance as such. My understanding is that for Christianity, some forms of Hinduism and many other faiths God is not ascribed a physical form in the sense we understand.

Images of God in traditional Christianity for example tend to be of rather grand natural phenomena - which seems as beautiful as it is appropriate and respectful.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a considerable amount of controversy inside Christianity (and between it and Islam) on whether God is One, Three, or somehow both at the same time.

 

[Bunyip]

In Islamic culture images of God and man were prohibited, and so Mosques were decorated in impossibly sophisticated geometric patterns - which to me, as a non-Moslem always struck me as powerfully poetic - in that it seemed that God was being depicted in an almost mathematical form - the very geometry and nature of the universe itself.

 

[LuisDantas]

The odd thing to me is that somehow those same Muslim cultures failed to notice that for very similar reasons it is dangerous to assume that they have attained a fair understanding of whether there is even a god, let alone what it wants.

 

[Bunyip]

The odd thing to me is that somehow those same Muslim cultures failed to notice that for very similar reasons it is dangerous to assume that they have attained a fair understanding of whether there is even a god, let alone what it wants.

I can sure understand thousands of years of artists being interested in having a go at representing such things though. What more fascinating a prospect to consider? The grandest of all notions.

 

[Bunyip]

The odd thing to me is that somehow those same Muslim cultures failed to notice that for very similar reasons it is dangerous to assume that they have attained a fair understanding of whether there is even a god, let alone what it wants.

I can sure understand thousands of years of artists being interested in having a go at representing such things though. What more fascinating a prospect to consider? The grandest of all notions.

 

[Bunyip]

The odd thing to me is that somehow those same Muslim cultures failed to notice that for very similar reasons it is dangerous to assume that they have attained a fair understanding of whether there is even a god, let alone what it wants.

I can sure understand thousands of years of artists being interested in having a go at representing such things though. What more fascinating a prospect to consider? The grandest of all notions.

 

[sun rise]

I often want to flip it around - what does someone's mental image of God tell me about what the person is like. There's God the piñata who one "beats" with prayers resulting in goodies being showered on the petitioner, God the cruel and vengeful father ready to smite at the slightest excuse, the all loving God who forgives, the transcended God beyond all mental images and so forth.

 

[LuisDantas]

What does that tell you about what the person is like?

I hope Sunrise and you do not mind my pitching in.

In most situations, a person's conception or choice of a deity reveals a good bit about what their hopes and expectations are.

"Piñata" worshipping hints at a perception that the world ought to be more generous and giving.

Smiting gods suggest believers that have anger issues and perhaps a thirst for control over others.

Loving, forgiving gods are expected for worshippers that have a lot of empathy or have dealt with too much pain and suffering.

Transcendend gods tend to be more difficult to make assumptions about, which may or may not be an indicator that their worshippers are more relaxed about the whole matter of deities.

 

[sun rise]

What does that tell you about what the person is like?

The story of the blind men and the elephant is my guide here.Another way of stating it is "When a pickpocket meets a saint, all he sees are pockets." In the realm of psychology it's important to remember that many don't fit but it's a useful generalization. If one reads scriptures such as the Bible, there are many different and contradictory images of God presented especially if one focuses on specific passages and ignores the fabric of the whole.

A person lost in greed might follow prosperity gospel believing that God owes him or her goodies in exchange for belief and prayer. Someone who is angry finds it natural to believe in a vengeful God. Someone with a loving nature is attracted to scripture passages emphasizing God's loving nature.

But of course it's more complicated than that and people can have other motivations for seeing God in a certain way.

 

[sun rise]

I hope Sunrise and you do not mind my pitching in.

In most situations, a person's conception or choice of a deity reveals a good bit about what their hopes and expectations are.

"Piñata" worshipping hints at a perception that the world ought to be more generous and giving.

Smiting gods suggest believers that have anger issues and perhaps a thirst for control over others.

Loving, forgiving gods are expected for worshippers that have a lot of empathy or have dealt with too much pain and suffering.

Transcendend gods tend to be more difficult to make assumptions about, which may or may not be an indicator that their worshippers are more relaxed about the whole matter of deities.

I'm glad you jumped in.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm glad you jumped in.

Thanks!

 

[savagewind]

I often want to flip it around - what does someone's mental image of God tell me about what the person is like. There's God the piñata who one "beats" with prayers resulting in goodies being showered on the petitioner, God the cruel and vengeful father ready to smite at the slightest excuse, the all loving God who forgives, the transcended God beyond all mental images and so forth.

Good! This is what I mean. It is a philosophical image they make. It isn't a two-dimensional drawing that they do which is what it is believed the ten commandments prohibits. I think God is most important as a goal, not a picture which can be mental or non-physical (spiritual).
SEEK Jehovah seek righteousness seek meekness. If you think you know Jehovah. righteousness and meekness how can you seek it? Zephaniah 2:3

Another thought I have is that when someone says, "You must believe in the God that I believe in" aren't they saying that I should stop seeking because they have already found it?

 

[Thief]

Some people seem to think that to have an accurate mental image of God is important. The debate goes on and on for centuries with no peaceful resolution in sight. I think that now with the internet it is picking up so much so that if all the words about whether God is Just One or if God is a Trinity were on paper the weight would sink the Earth. Not a good thing.

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

To make a carved image of God is a sin. So important a sin that it is said to have been written on stone by God's own self/selves.

This is my opinion. A mental image of something is more important than a physical image. I think that if a physical image of God is prohibited then a mental image is too.

A physical image is not able to do anything. A mental image leads the believer in a way that he or she believes the image dictates.

In regard to God....image is a word of double meaning....

God created Man is His image.....it's not physical.
God forbids a carving of representation of Himself....it's simply ineffective.

But we can't really do nothing....and expect all will be well.

If you make no consideration what God might be like.....
how then to prepare for the pending approach?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some people seem to think that to have an accurate mental image of God is important. The debate goes on and on for centuries with no peaceful resolution in sight. I think that now with the internet it is picking up so much so that if all the words about whether God is Just One or if God is a Trinity were on paper the weight would sink the Earth. Not a good thing.

So I want to talk about why. Why is is so damn important to agree with you?

It seems to me that the people who worry about whether God has one part or three also believe that:

- it's important to worship God.
- it's wrong to worship anyone or anything that isn't God.

Starting with those two premises, it's easy to reach the conclusion that if you don't have a clear idea of what is and isn't God, you're probably going to behave in ways that you wouldn't want.

If you're arguing that theists shouldn't worry about this, then you're effectively saying that one of those premises is wrong.