A Guide....How To Beat Your Wife The Correct Way

[Cooky]

I must be careful with this or I might get stoned. There are ideas that are silly to me, but I respect the right of others to their beliefs. Trinity, Transubstantiation, Holy Garments, Endowments, the idea that daemons eat your fingernail clippings, the fear that daemons live in the bog, and so on.

Me too -as long as they don't involve lording-over other people. Those kinds of "faith" I can't respect.

 

[Firemorphic]

Neither can those who make apologetics , imo. Religion demands adherence, some submit, which is fine. But there is this kind of walking on eggshells approach that does baffle me. Christianity was tamed and continues to be called out for its unsavory aspects. That doesn't mean we are being discriminatory. It means we are unwilling to accept the unacceptable. But as soon as it's Islam or even Sikhism, all the bluster and righteous indignation gives way to people either looking to critique or people falling over themselves to prove how tolerant they are. I get that people in the West are more familiar with Christendom and therefore more confident to challenge that paradigm. But you gotta give a little air time for those with grievances too. They have lived under the more unsavory aspects.

We can and should criticize Islam. We can and should criticize religion in general. If you allow a vocal minority to receive little to no pushback, then you have failed to help those who would suffer under them.

I criticize my own two cultures all the time. Weirdly enough I, a direct descendant of Indian heritage, am being "racist" when I voice my distaste at outdated, sexist and homophobic aspects of that culture. Which I experience, nonetheless. But I'm righteous for doing so against various Christian communities.

I find myself in between. I agree that those on the right often just look for excuses to bash. But I also find my leftist brethren too toothless to really stand up for equality when they see inequality happen. Just because there are apologetics from that side in action.

Okay, rant over. Sorry.

Sure, I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time much of it flies right by my initial point.
These days everyone has an opinion and criticism of everything and everything - my point is that not everyone who gets up with a megaphone and speaks authoritatively about such a broad topic is going to have a valuable or meaningful contribution to the conversation.
It's easy to take some hot air and spread it as a meme around the entire internet, likewise it's easy to conflate any number of things together to support a confirmation bias (often towards a prejudice of some form).

And also to add to your second paragraph, it's ignorant to act like Islam isn't criticized. But again, deciding what criticisms are valid and which are blatant lies is another thing, one which I know both the left and right run cowardly away from often.

 

[Father Heathen]

What baffles me is why women defend this ideology?

Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Cooky]

Sure, I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time much of it flies right by my initial point.
These days everyone has an opinion and criticism of everything and everything - my point is that not everyone who gets up with a megaphone and speaks authoritatively about such a broad topic is going to have a valuable or meaningful contribution to the conversation.
It's easy to take some hot air and spread it as a meme around the entire internet, likewise it's easy to conflate any number of things together to support a confirmation bias (often towards a prejudice of some form).

And also to add to your second paragraph, it's ignorant to act like Islam isn't criticized. But again, deciding what criticisms are valid and which are blatant lies is another thing, one which I know both the left and right run cowardly away from often.

I don't know... There have been survey's taken in the Muslim world. The results are often startling.

...So sometimes, I'm not sure if something is "hot air". Often times it is not with Islam where you would think it is. Or should be.

 

[Cooky]

In the news is this amazing video guide.....
Fury as vile cleric from World Cup host country Qatar films shocking guide on how Muslim men should beat their wives

I'd offer commentary, but dang....the video speaks for itself.

But he talked about it so confidently and politely. It must not be that bad.

(I imagine that's what some people must think)

 

[Ellen Brown]

Me too -as long as they don't involve lording-over other people. Those kinds of "faith" I can't respect.

The "Lording it Over others" is proof of human imperfection.

 

[SomeRandom]

Did you say that you are of Indian descent? I am sure that there are some ideas in that culture that are difficult to explain in western culture. An example would be the bare midriffs in Indian clothing for women that would be very hard to explain in my culture. Another example might be the western summoning of someone by cupping your hand and bringing it toward you. In the Sunni Middle Eastern culture I was in, that is an insult.

Sure "translating" across cultures is tricky. But I find it easy enough, for the most part

As to the accuracy of the translation, I have heard Scholars say that a woman can be hit if the marks are only minor, and only on the behind. There is a very wide range of interpretation of Islamic thought. As for me, being western, if a man was to hit me, he should have a pistol. I know a member of the Khan family who is married, and lived in the UK. I wonder what their interpretation would be, though it is doubtful that she would answer me.

Both interpretations strike me as abusive, regardless. Err, no pun intended

 

[Cooky]

The "Lording it Over others" is proof of human imperfection.

I personally don't suffer from that particular imperfection... So I have a very low tolerance for It, and can see it in others like a neon sign.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Sure "translating" across cultures is tricky. But I find it easy enough, for the most part


Both interpretations strike me as abusive, regardless. Err, no pun intended

It has been a long path for me because those I was with taught me that I was good only for beating and scorn. That was long ago.

 

[Notanumber]

They made sure that they never showed Citizen Khan doing that, but that was an attempt at propaganda dressed up as a comedy series.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I wonder, why use a boy? Why didn't he use his wife? 'Cuz she woulda knocked him out!

I preferred the video after, on 'Driscoll's blackberry salsa'.
(Or was that an ad?)

 

[dybmh]

When I watched the video, I felt like I was missing the first part. It sounds like the speaker is answering a specific question: "What does it mean in Surah 4:34 when it says: ..."

When I watched the video I didn't think the speaker was saying: "This is how I beat my wife." or "You should keep your wife inside, and dominate her".

It sounded like a scriptural discussion as @Ellen Brown pointed out on page 1.

 

[Revoltingest]

Keep in mind that translating from Arabic to English is full of errors. AND, the original poster conveniently ignored what was actually said, at the expense of the speaker in the Video, to provide himself with an ignorant and false interpretation

"Original poster" here.....I ignored nothing.
I watched & read the video, but merely avoided commenting on it in the OP.

I take issue with some things...
- You say this is an "ignorant and false interpretation"?
Where did I err?
- There are always translation errors between languages.
But if the English is wrong in some places, I recommend addressing those.
- I don't speak the language, I observe his tone when striking his ersatz wife.
The English comports with his behavior. How do you think it does not?

Sure, it is "striking lite". This is bad enuf, but this also risks escalation by less
scholarly & restrained disciplinarians.

A similar idea is in Genesis 3:16, and in Ephesians 5:22, Though in modern parlance, it is carefully watered down, perhaps to avoid offending Feminist Women.

This is laughable because it is simple to see that the radical Feminists have men of faith running scared, and to me it is an insult to reasonable women, who are just as able to read and interpret scripture as men are. Taken in the spirit of truth and understanding, there is nothing surprising here.

The right to not be beaten by another person is hardly a "radical feminist" idea.
A broader libertarian view is that no one should beat someone else against
their will. I suppose that one might argue that Muslim women are willingly
beaten in observance with their religion, I'd not object. But I'm highly skeptical
that this desire is universal or that the assault is always so mild.
Also, violence in the Bible is neither justification nor excuse for the same in Islam.

 

[Revoltingest]

Stockholm syndrome.

No, it's even worse than that.
It's religion.

 

[SomeRandom]

It has been a long path for me because those I was with taught me that I was good only for beating and scorn. That was long ago.

I'm so sorry.
You are a worthy human being.

 

[icehorse]

I'm noticing a trend with this kind of sentiment. I mean, a learned person's informed observations and jurisprudence rulings vs a random person doing whatever he feels like and it being stamped into this abstract "Islam" is quite the jump. I think I know why you don't care about scholars though

Here's a section from Wikipedia, although many sources can be found:

Jurisprudence and reality[edit]
In deference to Surah 4:34, many nations with Shari'a law have refused to consider or prosecute cases of "domestic abuse."[30][31][32][33] In 2010, the highest court of United Arab Emirates (Federal Supreme Court) considered a lower court's ruling, and upheld a husband's right to "chastise" his wife and children physically. Article 53 of the United Arab Emirates' penal code acknowledges the right of a "chastisement by a husband to his wife and the chastisement of minor children" so long as the assault does not exceed the limits prescribed by Shari'a.[34] The Council of Islamic Ideology, a constitutional body of Pakistan that advises the government on the compatibility of laws with Islam, has recommended authorizing husbands to ‘lightly’ beat disobedient wives.[35] In Lebanon, KAFA, an organization campaigning against violence and the exploitation of women, alleges that as many as three-quarters of all Lebanese females have suffered physically at the hands of husbands or male relatives at some point in their lives. An effort has been underway to remove domestic violence cases from Shari'a driven religious courts to civil penal code driven courts.[36][37] Social workers claim failure of religious courts in addressing numerous instances of domestic abuse in Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Palestine, Morocco, Iran, Yemen and Saudi Arabia.

As for reliance on "scholars", which ones would you recommend we learn from? Which of Islam's many warring sects has the "correct" interpretation?

It is because questions like these have no good answers that I think it's more useful to look at current behaviors than scholarly interpretations.

 

[SomeRandom]

Sure, I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time much of it flies right by my initial point.
These days everyone has an opinion and criticism of everything and everything - my point is that not everyone who gets up with a megaphone and speaks authoritatively about such a broad topic is going to have a valuable or meaningful contribution to the conversation.
It's easy to take some hot air and spread it as a meme around the entire internet, likewise it's easy to conflate any number of things together to support a confirmation bias (often towards a prejudice of some form).

And also to add to your second paragraph, it's ignorant to act like Islam isn't criticized. But again, deciding what criticisms are valid and which are blatant lies is another thing, one which I know both the left and right run cowardly away from often.

So in other words, be skeptical?

 

[Wandering Monk]

I must be careful with this or I might get stoned. There are ideas that are silly to me, but I respect the right of others to their beliefs. Trinity, Transubstantiation, Holy Garments, Endowments, the idea that daemons eat your fingernail clippings, the fear that daemons live in the bog, and so on.

You don't have to respect beliefs that advocate violence. There is nothing redeeming in such a belief.

 

[Cooky]

It has been a long path for me because those I was with taught me that I was good only for beating and scorn. That was long ago.

It's good that I was not there to witness that. I'm the type who doesn't say a word - they just feel the pressure in their head and then pass out after hearing the thump.

 

[Cooky]

I'll make it taste like pennys.