10 killed in Buffalo, NY store shooting!

[Subduction Zone]

Is that your armory in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

Let me tell ya, I always draw that tan one very very carefully!!

 

[stvdv]

Then God is accountable since God has the power to affect the change.

YES, I agree, but only if you hold God accountable for the good stuff too

And this, obviously, is not up for debate
(IF you hold God accountable God exists)

 

[stvdv]

Ethics and compassion.

Wow, we agree again. I love it

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A gun’s purpose is not to kill anyone.

I don't even have to say anything because that says it all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When are you people going to realize that those that perpetrate the crime are the problem not the firearm.
Probably never, so why should I waste my time trying to convince you.

The firearm makes it much easier, and as we see in places like England when there is a gunless attack there are far fewer people killed and injured.

 

[stvdv]

Personally, I think it comes down mostly to stricter firearm laws on our side of the border; apparently you disagree... so what do you think is causing the murder rate in Buffalo to be so much higher than this other nearby city?

Nice example

IF you have strict firearm laws THEN the criminals stay far away, well not that far, they just goto Buffalo I guess.

These criminals are not very picky. Their first way to not get jailed for having firearms, is a law that gives them permission to carry firearms

 

[stvdv]

I don't even have to say anything because that says it all.

Maybe he thought/dreamed about @Subduction Zone his gun post. Though, this gun is not to shoot blanks, it's purpose is still to shoot for "life". The one @Thirza Fallen referred to

 

[Twilight Hue]

Me too if it is just one.

View attachment 62932

 

[Twilight Hue]

The firearm makes it much easier, and as we see in places like England when there is a gunless attack there are far fewer people killed and injured.

They just attack subways instead.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They just attack subways instead.

Perhaps a valid point. I wonder if fear of crazies with guns has kept religious crazies from attacking the US?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They just attack subways instead.

Yes, they do. And as I pointed out they kill and injure far fewer people.

 

[Kenny]

I have no idea what you mean.

Auto correct. defund the police policy

 

[Kenny]

So we members of society should just accept our losses to disturbed people? It could be people you love next, and you just have a passive attitude about it?

not at all...

1) apply the laws to those who are disturbed, not on those who are sane
2) Should we stop all drivers because some use vehicles as weapons or are careless? Do we stop all drivers and eliminate all alcohol consumption or just take drivers licenses away from those who drink and drive.

 

[Kenny]

Was this van purposely modified in a way to make it more effective and efficient at killing?

Who cares? It is already primed and ready for rapid fire.

 

[Kenny]

Cars are intended as a form of transportation, not weaponry.

So? Guns are made for protection and defense and it is our 2nd amendment.

 

[Kenny]

And people have shot up public events.

For motor vehicles, I think it's reasonable to have:

- federal safety standards
- mandatory licensing
- mandatory registration
- mandatory insurance
- car-free zones
- cops literally hiding in bushes watching people use their cars, ready to issue tickets if they see any misuse

Do you support all that for guns? If not, sit back down.

Stand down Penguin and let me stand up

Background checks for gun purchases

Gun buyers are required to submit to a background check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

A prospective buyer fills out ATF Form 4473 and the federally licensed firearms dealers relays this information to the NICS. NICS staff perform a background check to verify the prospective buyer does not have a criminal record and is not otherwise ineligible to purchase a firearm.

The NICS has conducted more than 300 million checks since launching in 1998, leading to over 3 million denials.

I. POSSESSION OR RECEIPT OF A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION BY A PROHIBITED PERSON:
18 USC § 922(g). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. Pursuant to 18 USC § 924(e), may receive minimum sentence of 15years without parole if offender has 3 or more prior convictions for afelony crime of violence (e.g., burglary, arson, extortion, assault) and/ordrug trafficking felony.

Elements
A. Knowing possession or receipt of a firearm or ammunition;

B. By a subject who falls within one of the following categories:

Felon - Prior conviction for offense that carries over 1 yr. (Certainexceptions listed in 18 USC § 921(a)(20) Additionally, personsawaiting trial on felony charges are prohibited from receiving firearms. See 18 USC § 922(n));

Drug user or addict - Inference of current use may be shown byevidence of recent use or possession or pattern of use or possessionthat reasonably covers the present time (e.g., positive drug test;conviction for use or possession within past year.);

Alien -Includes illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens. This provisiondoes not prohibit an alien with a “green card” from possessing guns orammunition. NOTE: certain exceptions in 18 USC § 922(y);

Person adjudicated as mental defective or committed to mentalinstitution;

Person subject to a domestic restraining order - The order must prohibit specific conduct against an intimate partner or a child ofeither the intimate partner or person subject to the order and musthave been issued after a hearing of which the subject was notifiedand at which the subject had an opportunity to participate. The order must also find the subject poses a credible threat to the physicalsafety of the intimate partner or child described above or must prohibitthe use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force.;

Person with a prior misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence - The prior conviction must be for a crime which has as an element theuse or attempted use of physical force or the threatened use of adeadly weapon. It must have been committed by someone in aspecific domestic relationship with the victim (e.g., spouse or formerspouse, partner, parent, or guardian). The subject must have beenrepresented by counsel or waived that right and if entitled to a jurytrial, had a jury trial or waived that right.;

Fugitive from justice -Fled any state to avoid being prosecuted or toavoid testifying in any criminal proceeding.; or

Person dishonorably discharged from the military;

C. AND, the firearm or ammunition was transported across a state line atany time. (Defendant need not have transported the firearm or known of itstransportation across state lines.)

II. KNOWINGLY SELL, GIVE OR OTHERWISE DISPOSE OF ANY FIREARM OR AMMUNITION TO ANY PERSON WHO FALLS WITHIN ONE OF THE ABOVE CATEGORIES:
18 USC § 922(d). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment.

III. USE, CARRY OR POSSESS A FIREARM IN RELATION TO OR IN FURTHERANCE OF A FEDERAL DRUG FELONY OR A FEDERAL CRIME OF VIOLENCE:
18 USC § 924(c); 18 USC § 924(j). Punishment ranges from at least 5 years up to life imprisonment, without parole, or death if death results from use of firearm. Sentence of imprisonment must be served consecutive to any other sentence. Mandatory minimumsentence increases depending upon: the type of firearm involved (short-barreled rifle or shotgun; silencer, etc.); whether it is a second or subsequent offense; and whether gun was brandished or discharged.

IV. STOLEN FIREARM, AMMUNITION OR EXPLOSIVE:
A. 18 USC §§ 842(h); 922(i), & (j). Punishable by up to 10 yearsimprisonment. May not knowingly transport or ship in interstatecommerce or receive, possess, conceal, pledge or accept as securityfor a loan any stolen firearm, ammunition or explosive which has moved in interstate commerce.

B. 18 USC § 922(u). Punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment. May notwillfully steal or unlawfully take or carry away a firearm that has beenshipped or transported in interstate commerce from the person or premises of a firearms licensee.

V. FIREARM IN A SCHOOL ZONE:
18 USC § 922(q)(2), (3). Misdemeanor offense punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment. Generally, may not possess or discharge a firearm (that has moved in interstate commerce) in a school zone.

VI. KNOWINGLY POSSESS OR MANUFACTURE CERTAIN FIREARMS:
Various offenses punishable by up to 5 or 10 years imprisonment, depending upon specific violation.

A. 26 USC § 5861. Generally unlawful to make or possess any unregistered machine gun or any part designed or intendedexclusively for use in converting a weapon into such weapon, firearm silencer, sawed-off shotgun or rifle which meet specific length criteria, or destructive device (as defined in 26 USC § 5845); see also 18 USC § 922(o): generally unlawful to possess or transfermachine guns made on or after May 19, 1986;

B. 18 USC § 922(v). Generally unlawful to manufacture, transfer, or possess semi-automatic assault weapon manufactured after Sept. 13, 1994; OR

C. 18 USC § 922(k). Generally unlawful to possess or receive any firearmthat has moved in interstate commerce which lacks a serial number or contains an altered or obliterated serial number.

VII. SELL, DELIVER OR TRANSFER FIREARM OR AMMUNITION TO A JUVENILE:
A. 18 USC § 922(x)(1). Punishable by up to 1 year imprisonment unlesstransferor had reason to believe juvenile would commit crime ofviolence with gun or ammunition, then up to 10 years imprisonment. May not sell, deliver or transfer a handgun or handgun-onlyammunition to a person who is under age 18;

B. 18 USC § 922(x)(2). A person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun-only ammunition; (NOTE: Certain exceptions apply to A & B, such as where juvenile possesses written permission of a parent.);

C. 18 USC § 922(b). Punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment. A firearms licensee may not sell any gun or ammunition to anyone under the age of 18 and may not sell a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under the age of 21.

FORFEITURE OF FIREARMS, AMMUNITION & EXPLOSIVES:
Firearms, as defined below, involved in the aforementioned violations, or violations of firearms registration or tax lawsmay be forfeited by ATF. Firearms involved in drug violations may be forfeitedby other federal agencies. Both civil and criminal forfeiture are available. Civil forfeiture does not require a federal prosecution. An agency must give noticeof proposed civil forfeiture within 60 days of a federal seizure and within 90days of a State or local seizure. To meet these deadlines, a State or local agency generally must refer a firearm seizure to a federal agency foradministrative or civil forfeiture within 30 days of the seizure by the State orlocal agency. Contact the federal agency forfeiture staff immediately uponseizure, even if the firearm is needed as evidence in a criminal case.

TRACING OF FIREARMS:
Firearms information for every firearmtaken into police custody should be sent to ATF for tracing and possibleconnection to other criminal activity.

DEFINITION OF “FIREARM”:
18 USC § 921(a)(3), (4). Anyweapon (including a starter gun) which will expel a projectile by means of anexplosive or is designed or may be readily converted to do so. This includes the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any firearm muffler or silencer orany destructive device. A “destructive device” includes any explosive,incendiary or poison gas --- (i)bomb; (ii) grenade or (iii) similar device, or anycombination of parts designed or intended for use in converting any deviceinto a destructive device, or from which a destructive device may be readilyassembled. Does not include antique firearms.

FOR INFORMATION OR QUESTIONS ABOUT PROJECT CEASEFIRE OR TO MAKE A REFERRAL FOR PROSECUTION, PLEASE CONTACT:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)
Columbia - phone: 803-765-5723 fax: 803-765-5756
Charleston - phone: 843-763-3683 fax: 843-763-8848
Greenville - phone: 864-232-3221 fax: 864-233-7160
Florence - phone: 843-667-3985 fax: 843-678-8809

United States Attorney's Office
Columbia - phone: 803-929-3033 fax: 803-256-0233
Charleston - phone: 843-727-4381 fax: 843-727-4443
Greenville - phone: 864-282-2105 fax: 864-239-2993
Florence - phone: 843-665-6688 fax: 843-678-8809

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Stand down Penguin and let me stand up

My scan of that wall of copy-pasted text showed nothing at all about most of the items I listed.

Easy question: do you agree with all of them?

 

[Kenny]

My scan of that wall of copy-pasted text showed nothing at all about most of the items I listed.

Easy question: do you agree with all of them?

your list?

 

[Stevicus]

Just for perspective, I found an interesting chart which plots the firearms rate per 10 people and compares it with the murder rate per 100,000 people, year by year since 1950:

Per Capita Firearms vs Murder Rates in the U.S. 1950 - 2014 (ammoland.com)

Admittedly, this is from a pro-gun website, but these numbers seem accurate enough based on similar stats I've seen, as they're generally based on the FBI UCR. The number of firearms shows a steady increase, year by year, while the murder rate has fluctuated, starting to spike in the mid 1960s and lasting all the way to the 1990s, where it drops off dramatically.

This chart only goes up to 2014, although my understanding is that the murder rate has ticked up a bit these past couple of years, but still nowhere near the murder rate in the 70s and 80s.

The author of this article suggests the reason for the drop in murder rate is due to various reforms which came about in the 1980s and 90s, such as allowing for concealed-carry:

The recent rise in justified homicides along with the increase in concealed carry permits and legal doctrines such as “stand your ground” and “castle doctrine” has been noted in several places. These reforms coincide well with the drop in the murder rate from 1991 to 2014. Shall issue concealed carry reform started in 1987, and has continued through the entire 1991 – 2014 period, with the bulk of the reforms occurring after 1993. This is the same period with the sustained drop in the murder rate.

It also appears there is a correlation between the drop in murder rate and the increase in the incarceration rate.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

your list?

Yes:

- federal safety standards
- mandatory licensing
- mandatory registration
- mandatory insurance
- car-free zones
- cops literally hiding in bushes watching people use their cars, ready to issue tickets if they see any misuse